Originally posted by JohnMartin
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Is the Earth Flat? - Some Evidence Presented
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Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
If there is a mountain of water between LAX and Tokyo, what measures are taken by the pilot to ensure the plane climbs and then descends the mountain of water?
778544_dee3_1024x2000.jpg
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostThis is circle in most translations, including Young's Literal:
New International Version
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
New Living Translation
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.
English Standard Version
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
New American Standard Bible
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
King James Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Holman Christian Standard Bible
God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
International Standard Version
He's the one who sits above the disk of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in,
NET Bible
He is the one who sits on the earth's horizoncircle of the earth, And the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; That stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, And spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;
New American Standard 1977
It is He who sits above the vault of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Jubilee Bible 2000
He is seated upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; he stretches out the heavens as a curtain and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:
King James 2000 Bible
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:
American King James Version
It is he that sits on the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:
American Standard Version
It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;
Found it:
Douay-Rheims Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
Darby Bible Translation
[It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a gauze curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;
English Revised Version
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Webster's Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
World English Bible
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in;
Young's Literal Translation
He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostThis is circle in most translations, including Young's Literal:
Babylon Hebrew-English Dictionary has for this word:
class, sphere, set, society, coterie. tropic, circle, range, boundary, compass. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostYes, "circle" is the standard translation of that Hebrew word. חוג
Babylon Hebrew-English Dictionary has for this word:
class, sphere, set, society, coterie. tropic, circle, range, boundary, compass
Could it be that "circle" is more in tune with the geographical knowledge of the Hebrew of circa 700 BCE?
{ETA: If you're trying to use the OT to refute flat-Earthism, I believe you're barking up the wrong tree. Similar to trying to force a 6/24/6000 year first Genesis creation story interpretation to be in agreement with geology, physics, astronomy, ...}Last edited by klaus54; 02-07-2016, 07:34 PM.
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Originally posted by JohnMartin View PostWhat is the counter argument to the light house, islands off Italy and the statue of liberty being seen from distances that are prohibitive on a global earth? If you claim a mirage, can you provide evidence for it, or do you rely upon the testimony of others and not science? Science evidence please.
You're searching for a few discrepancies in a huge mountain of obvious evidence for a roundish Earth, armed with a very limited and largely incorrect understanding of physics. I've seen a fair portion of that mountain of obvious evidence myself. That includes my work with satellites, including the images and data from them. You don't show a flat Earth by finding apparent discrepancies. You show it by something like going to the edge of the Earth and taking pictures of the edge. (As we've already explored the entirety of the Antarctic, good luck with that.)
As for the water, look up "surface tension". It keeps water relatively flat over short distances. It gets overwhelmed by gravity over large distances.
Originally posted by lao tzu View PostWhat kind of name is Yttrium? Sounds vaguely reptilian to me.
yttrium.jpgLast edited by Yttrium; 02-07-2016, 07:51 PM.Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostThen why do most scholars prefer "circle"?
Could it be that "circle" is more in tune with the geographical knowledge of the Hebrew of circa 700 BCE?
{ETA: If you're trying to use the OT to refute flat-Earthism, I believe you're barking up the wrong tree. Similar to trying to force a 6/24/6000 year first Genesis creation story interpretation to be in agreement with geology, physics, astronomy, ...}. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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John, if you go stand on Bondi Beach and look East South East, can you see New Zealand? No? ahhh right curvature of the earth.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThat is a good question. The NASB did originally translate the Hebrew word as "vault" and latter replaced it with the word "circle" moving "vault" to the margin. But then the literal is now often moved to the margin in the NASB. It would seem that the translators think the reading is closer to an understandable meaning than the literal.
Maybe more in line with the Hebrew people's understanding of what was said.
The translators of the Douay were translating from the Latin understood "circle" when they rendered ". . . gyrum . . ." [[round] about] as "globe" BTW.
The earliest a spherical Earth is thought to be mentioned is in the time of Pythagoras in the Sixth Century BCE, and that's only a tradition IIRC.
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostSo, if Isaiah was unaware of the Earth being spherical, how could God explain to him that the world is much bigger than Isaiah realizes and it is shaped like a ball?
It's extremely doubtful that Isaiah (if he was the author of chapters 40 on -- as some scholars dispute) was aware of the sphericity of Earth IF chapter 40 was written in the Eight Century BCE, two centuries before Pythagoras (and it's questionable whether P knew at that time.)
Anyway, I don't believe the purpose of scripture is to impart novel scientific knowledge long before that novel idea was discovered by the secular world.
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostI don't understand this. Could you please re-phrase?
It's extremely doubtful that Isaiah (if he was the author of chapters 40 on -- as some scholars dispute) was aware of the sphericity of Earth IF chapter 40 was written in the Eight Century BCE, two centuries before Pythagoras (and it's questionable whether P knew at that time.)
Anyway, I don't believe the purpose of scripture is to impart novel scientific knowledge long before that novel idea was discovered by the secular world.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostIt would not be a problem if Isaiah were just refering to the horizon. You can't use the Bible to argue for a flat Earth or a round Earth, because it doesn't every refer to the entire planet. And it talks in terms the people back then could understand.
I agree.
Teaching novel geophysics was not the purpose of that verse.
I asked you to clarify since there are many inerrantists (like 37818???) who insist the ancient Hebrews were imparted knowledge of the physical world that wasn't known until centuries later.
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