Book Plunge: Can Christians Prove The Resurrection?

[Christianbookworm]

You know if you sincerely want to rescue us from this horrible cult it would behoove you to argue against what we believe rather than the parody of it you are railing against.

Why did Jesus even bother to die for such ornery brats in the first place? Yes, I'm aware that I just called myself an ornery brat also.

[Jedidiah]

Sure. It's much more fun in the New Jerusalem! But He certainly won't force you to live there. Just don't ever do anything wrong.

Ever from birth forward.

[Christianbookworm]

Ever from birth forward.

Which is impossible. Only Jesus did it! And then proceeded to let Himself be given a horrible, shameful death for our sake. I think He'd have a right to be offended when ungrateful brats reject His offer of salvation.

[RumTumTugger]

Which is impossible. Only Jesus did it! And then proceeded to let Himself be given a horrible, shameful death for our sake. I think He'd have a right to be offended when ungrateful brats reject His offer of salvation.

But he even shows love there CBW he does not force you to go where you have continually told him you don't want to go.

[Christianbookworm]

But he even shows love there CBW he does not force you to go where you have continually told him you don't want to go.

One cannot keep a wild animal as a "pet". I'm tempted to make a thread about how universalism actually would be unethical and then use all the reasons for why you would not keep a wild animal as a pet. Namely that doing so would put the animal through too much stress and it would hurt the other animals in the close confines of a home.

[Gary]

All have sinned and deserve punishment Gary All it isn't a bell curve here is is pass or fail and needing a 100 percent on your test or else God would not be a Just or Righteous God. But God in his grace has been able to temper his Justice with his Mercy you are not going to be punished because you didn't accept Jesus you going to be punished because you are a sinner and justice demands it. Jesus is the way not go to where you deserve to Go that is where mercy comes in.

Gary the TRUE God(not the false one you have made up in your mind) is a Righteous Just, merciful and loving God. who wants a loving relationship with his creation so much so that he risked that relationship let you have the choice to let him be the one to hold on to the RIGHT relationship with him you were created for. If you choose to say no I want it my way then he will let you have it but don't blame him if you don't like where YOUR way leads that the consequence. Good choices bring Good consequences; Bad choices bring Bad consequences. It is not the fault of anyone else especially not God's if you don't like the consequence of the choice you make.

Gary when that day comes no matter what choice you have made. You will admit God is God and rightfully dealing with you.

I pray you make the right choice before it is to late.

Loving beings do not demand to be loved. Only an abusive, sadistic being would demand to be loved and punish anyone who refuses. It is a sadistic belief system, my friend. It is sad that as of yet, you can't see that.

[Gary]

You know if you sincerely want to rescue us from this horrible cult it would behoove you to argue against what we believe rather than the parody of it you are railing against.

When you guys can make up your minds and all agree on what and where Hell is, I'll give it a shot.

[Gary]

Why did Jesus even bother to die for such ornery brats in the first place? Yes, I'm aware that I just called myself an ornery brat also.

Jesus died because he got on the wrong side of those in power. The idea that he died to atone for your misdeeds is an invention of people who never knew him. There is no mention of Jesus' death being an atonement for sins prior to the author of the Gospel of John inventing it at the end of the first century.

[Bisto]

...There is no mention of Jesus' death being an atonement for sins prior to the author of the Gospel of John inventing it at the end of the first century.

Oh come on Gary. Are you serious? Does your Bible not have Paul's writings and the witness of earlier Christians he attests of? Do you even have a Bible still?

Again, if you really want to disprove Christianity, none of this is helping your case. Like you were told by a fellow atheist about your old debate with Nick (I read it the other day ), maybe you should stop making atheism look bad.

[Christianbookworm]

Gary is just making us Christians look even more intellectual than him. What if I aimply asserted that atheists are stupid and brainwashed and that point was repeated ad nauseum?

[Christianbookworm]

When you guys can make up your minds and all agree on what and where Hell is, I'll give it a shot.

We don't know for sure due to the Bible being written in a high context culture. People ignore cultural context at their peril. Or not. Getting all the answers correct is nigh impossible. You don't have to pass a theology test to get into Heaven.

[Gary]

Oh come on Gary. Are you serious? Does your Bible not have Paul's writings and the witness of earlier Christians he attests of? Do you even have a Bible still?

Again, if you really want to disprove Christianity, none of this is helping your case. Like you were told by a fellow atheist about your old debate with Nick (I read it the other day ), maybe you should stop making atheism look bad.

When Christian cite Gospel verses about being saved, they always refer to John. (No wonder many Christians say the book of John is their favorite book.) Just take a look at a Christian pamphlet or tract, and you'll see that the verses they mention about faith and believing on Jesus are from the book of John, such as John 3:16 and John 14:6. When they quote Jesus, they usually refer to this book. Yet this book did not come for at least 50 years after the first three Gospels. Therefore, logically whatever Jesus actually said would have been recorded more accurately in the earlier Gospels, which emphasize good works and charity instead.

From this it is apparent as to how the Salvation theology evolved in the Church while the New Testament books and letters were still being written. Another fact that indicates this as well is that according to Mark, Christ was a man. But according to Matthew and Luke, he was a demigod, while John insists that he was God himself. That also shows an evolution of the concept of Jesus from a man gradually to a deity status. This is common with religious founders throughout history, because no matter what they claim themselves, their followers eventually try to deify them and make them into a God to worship.

...

Conclusion

There you have it, THREE Gospels of good works being enough to satisfy God, versus ONE Gospel of faith and atonement. Three against one! Again the central doctrine of the Evangelical Christian Gospel loses by the numbers (as the doctrine of infallibility did in Argument # 1). Case closed.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Deb...ans/Page25.htm

[Christianbookworm]

The Gospels were written for believers. Why explain what they already knew? High contex society! Look it up!

[Bisto]

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Deb...ans/Page25.htm

So much for scholarship, I guess.

...Besides, did I even mention the other Gospels? I was talking about PAUL. I don't think there is even a need to check the place of Faith in the Synoptics here. Do you even care?

Again, take your time, think through other people's replies. It would probably help anybody's case. You're probably helping build superficial atheists who may well receive the Lord when they see the actual Gospel as distinguished from your portrayals of it.

[Gary]

So much for scholarship, I guess.

...Besides, did I even mention the other Gospels? I was talking about PAUL. I don't think there is even a need to check the place of Faith in the Synoptics here. Do you even care?

Again, take your time, think through other people's replies. It would probably help anybody's case. You're probably helping build superficial atheists who may well receive the Lord when they see the actual Gospel as distinguished from your portrayals of it.

Paul never met Jesus. Paul invented his own belief system with his many visions and revelations...all inside his own head. If we are to have any confidence in knowing anything that Jesus said, we must look to the Synoptics, not Paul, and not John.