Book Plunge: Can Christians Prove The Resurrection?

[Christianbookworm]

And why did God make us? Why does a perfect, eternal, all-knowing, omnipresent God need to create something new?

He didn't need to. He just wanted to. I don't know how terrible of a joke it would be to say that we are His "hobby", but not every action is taken to fill a need. Why does anyone create a story for free?

[Cow Poke]

Yes, and the child with the imaginary friend says the same thing:

"My friend isn't going to appear or do a magic trick just because YOU want him to, Mister. You have to really, really, genuinely believe...and THEN he will appear to you or do a magic trick."

Bless your heart.

[Christianbookworm]

Bless your heart.

Should I stop poking the primate?

[Gary]

He didn't need to. He just wanted to. I don't know how terrible of a joke it would be to say that we are His "hobby", but not every action is taken to fill a need. Why does anyone create a story for free?

Because they have an urge or need to do so.

Why would an all-knowing Creator create little mini-hims that he knew would for the most part, reject him, thereby requiring his "righteous" punishment?

Sounds like a sadist, to me.

[Bisto]

Because they have an urge or need to do so.

Why would an all-knowing Creator create little mini-hims that he knew would for the most part, reject him, thereby requiring his "righteous" punishment?

Sounds like a sadist, to me.

As a son I ask: why did you beget your children? They may well end up hating you, though I pray they won't. And I believe you would love them all the same even if they no longer wanted anything to do with you.

[psstein]

1. The miracle claim has to be a condition that has been treated by appropriate medical treatment and failed.
2. The proposed saint must have then prayed for healing for the patient.
3. At some point after the prayer, the condition is confirmed by a panel of experts to be resolved.

Notice this panel does not confirm if a "miracle" took place. The expert panel also does not claim that there is no other possible explanation for the healing other than a divine miracle.

Failed treatment with standard medical care---->prayer made by saint-to-be---->condition resolved at some point after the prayer.

That's it.

Very important point.

No, Gary, that's not how it works. See, actually reading things would teach you that.

Also, as usual, you're moving the goalposts. Now you want Jesus to appear on CNN and perform a miracle in front of a skeptical audience. And if that happened, you'd come up with some other rationalization. Maybe the skeptics weren't skeptics! Maybe the tape was doctored! Maybe the skeptics all had a group hallucination!

[Gary]

No, Gary, that's not how it works. See, actually reading things would teach you that.

Also, as usual, you're moving the goalposts. Now you want Jesus to appear on CNN and perform a miracle in front of a skeptical audience. And if that happened, you'd come up with some other rationalization. Maybe the skeptics weren't skeptics! Maybe the tape was doctored! Maybe the skeptics all had a group hallucination!

Sadly, you are hopelessly brainwashed.

[Christianbookworm]

Sadly, you are hopelessly brainwashed.

Says the bag of chemical reactions. If you are right, none of this matters. And, yes, I know Pascal's wager is a thought experiment and not a logical argument. I'll have a fine life as a Christian no matter what, and I trust God for the final Resurrection. A foolish primate can't convince me to drop my certainty for a happy ending for his hopeless worlview.

[One Bad Pig]

Why do I get the feeling that Gary isn't serious about reading the rest of Keener's work? I know it's a terrible slog reading material that challenges your most cherished beliefs with evidence and logical argument, but he was really churning out the reviews in the beginning, and now it's all he can do to take a half-hearted stab at one eventually.

Medical evidence? Yeah, we got that. Video evidence? Yep, that too. Acknowledgement that skeptics will find a way to discount those, even after asking for them? Yep. Gary's response is to bleat, "BRAINWASHED111!!!11!!" I think even HE realizes how silly that looks, but what else is a determined skeptic gonna do?

[Christianbookworm]

Why do I get the feeling that Gary isn't serious about reading the rest of Keener's work? I know it's a terrible slog reading material that challenges your most cherished beliefs with evidence and logical argument, but he was really churning out the reviews in the beginning, and now it's all he can do to take a half-hearted stab at one eventually.

Medical evidence? Yeah, we got that. Video evidence? Yep, that too. Acknowledgement that skeptics will find a way to discount those, even after asking for them? Yep. Gary's response is to bleat, "BRAINWASHED111!!!11!!" I think even HE realizes how silly that looks, but what else is a determined skeptic gonna do?

I bet if Jesus showed up in person to Gary and bothered to do a miracle. Gary would just claim that Jesus was a mutant or a super powered alien. Of course, Jesus could retort that He existed long before those characters were made up. Gary would then take such knowledge to mean that Jesus couldn't possibly know about 20th century fiction and be from ancient times at the same time.

[Adrift]

Why do I get the feeling that Gary isn't serious about reading the rest of Keener's work? I know it's a terrible slog reading material that challenges your most cherished beliefs with evidence and logical argument, but he was really churning out the reviews in the beginning, and now it's all he can do to take a half-hearted stab at one eventually.

Medical evidence? Yeah, we got that. Video evidence? Yep, that too. Acknowledgement that skeptics will find a way to discount those, even after asking for them? Yep. Gary's response is to bleat, "BRAINWASHED111!!!11!!" I think even HE realizes how silly that looks, but what else is a determined skeptic gonna do?

Yep. His best* arguments thoroughly flattened, his hypocrisy exposed, he's reduced to petty soundbites..."You're all sick!!!" "You're all morally corrupt!!!" "You're all brainwashed!!!" Oh...okay then. Good luck leading the charge in decoverting all 2.2 billion of us starting with the same half-dozen on this forum who are barely bothering to pay any attention to the same lame soapbox ramblings.


* And by best, I mean the same feeble complaints refuted a million times since TWeb's inception.

[Adam]

The character of Gary's opponents is actually his best argument.

[Christianbookworm]

The character of Gary's opponents is actually his best argument.

How is calling someone a primate evil? Look at what Jesus called the Pharisees and come back later.

[Gary]

Says the bag of chemical reactions. If you are right, none of this matters. And, yes, I know Pascal's wager is a thought experiment and not a logical argument. I'll have a fine life as a Christian no matter what, and I trust God for the final Resurrection. A foolish primate can't convince me to drop my certainty for a happy ending for his hopeless worlview.

Enjoy life now, Wormy. There is no Sweet By and By. When you die, that's it.

Your comforting belief of spending an after-life in a magical fantasy land where there is no pain or sorrow is no different than Dorothy's trip to Oz.

It ain't real.

[Gary]

Why do I get the feeling that Gary isn't serious about reading the rest of Keener's work? I know it's a terrible slog reading material that challenges your most cherished beliefs with evidence and logical argument, but he was really churning out the reviews in the beginning, and now it's all he can do to take a half-hearted stab at one eventually.

Medical evidence? Yeah, we got that. Video evidence? Yep, that too. Acknowledgement that skeptics will find a way to discount those, even after asking for them? Yep. Gary's response is to bleat, "BRAINWASHED111!!!11!!" I think even HE realizes how silly that looks, but what else is a determined skeptic gonna do?

Your videos are not done in front of a panel of experts and do not include an indisputable healing.

Try again.