Book Plunge: Can Christians Prove The Resurrection?

[One Bad Pig]

Yes, and King Arthur, the Knights of the Round Table, and dragons are real too.

You're so predictable.

[Gary]

Me no doctor. Me obviously too stupid to recognize cure! Only doctors can recognize cures!



That must be why so many of the miracles do have medical documentation.

You could try reading it, but that would require you thinking and engaging with a book that contradicts your worldview and you have to stay insulated in it.

Patients give me articles on anecdotal cures all the time! The medical profession has standards for evaluating cures, Nick. Your standards just don't cut it. You are out of your field and making yourself look silly and ridiculous. Stop.

[Gary]

You're so predictable.

And you are soooo superstitious.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Well we've already unplugged the TV and got them packed, but it's fine. I have the Gary show to watch here. He somehow thinks I take him seriously. (Or that anyone else does for that matter)

[Gary]

Me no doctor. Me obviously too stupid to recognize cure! Only doctors can recognize cures!



That must be why so many of the miracles do have medical documentation.

You could try reading it, but that would require you thinking and engaging with a book that contradicts your worldview and you have to stay insulated in it.

They do NOT have proper medical documentation and verification, Nick. You just don't understand the very stringent process for verifying a new "cure". Just because an MD puts his signature on a miracle claim does NOT make it a fact.

[Apologiaphoenix]

They do NOT have proper medical documentation and verification, Nick. You just don't understand the very stringent process for verifying a new "cure". Just because an MD puts his signature on a miracle claim does NOT make it a fact.

I wanna be like Gary when I grow up. I want to have all knowledge of what a book says without even having to read it! That must be a nice gift!

What other books do you know all about without having to read them?

[Gary]

Well we've already unplugged the TV and got them packed, but it's fine. I have the Gary show to watch here. He somehow thinks I take him seriously. (Or that anyone else does for that matter)

And no educated, non-brainwashed person takes you seriously, Nick. I dare you to do this: Write to any national (non-religious affiliated) medical specialty organization and ask them their position on the medical cure claims in Keener's book. Ask them if medicine has confirmed the reality of supernatural (miracle) cures.

[Apologiaphoenix]

And no educated, non-brainwashed person takes you seriously, Nick. I dare you to do this: Write to any national (non-religious affiliated) medical specialty organization and ask them their position on the medical cure claims in Keener's book. Ask them if medicine has confirmed the reality of supernatural (miracle) cures.

I dare you to read the book. Doctors are not in a place to answer questions of metaphysics like that unfortunately. Medicine can only tell you what happens when agents of a materialistic sort are applied. They cannot tell you otherwise.

Seriously dude. We're all laughing at you. If you want to try to convince Christians, you have to do much better than this.

[Gary]

I wanna be like Gary when I grow up. I want to have all knowledge of what a book says without even having to read it! That must be a nice gift!

What other books do you know all about without having to read them?

You are selling snake oil and the sad thing is you sincerely believe it is truly a "cure".

It is very sad that such an intelligent person has been taught to believe that this silly nonsense is reality.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Let me know when you get out of that bubble and actually start to read scholarship.

[Gary]

I dare you to read the book. Doctors are not in a place to answer questions of metaphysics like that unfortunately. Medicine can only tell you what happens when agents of a materialistic sort are applied. They cannot tell you otherwise.

Seriously dude. We're all laughing at you. If you want to try to convince Christians, you have to do much better than this.

So what you are claiming is that medicine cannot examine or question your miracle cures??? So exactly why should I read them then? You are asking me to believe them based on what?

[Gary]

Let me know when you get out of that bubble and actually start to read scholarship.

I am attempting an intervention with you, Nick. I am trying to rescue you from a very deceptive cult. I am trying to bring you into the light of reason and science and out of the darkness of invisible good ghosts and bad ghosts competing for control of your brain (soul).

[Apologiaphoenix]

So what you are claiming is that medicine cannot examine or question your miracle cures??? So exactly why should I read them then? You are asking me to believe them based on what?

No. I am saying you could examine the cures. I am saying that medicine cannot tell you about metaphysical questions. Let's suppose that there is a person who has been blind all their life and then they go to their local church. The church prays over them in the name of Jesus and then as soon as they're done praying, the person's eyes are opened and they can see.

A doctor cannot tell you how it came about necessarily. They could only confirm that yes, he has good vision now and yes, he was blind before. The metaphysical question is out of their reach.

Also, you do not have to be a doctor to know that going from being blind to being able to see is a cure.

[Apologiaphoenix]

I am attempting an intervention with you, Nick. I am trying to rescue you from a very deceptive cult. I am trying to bring you into the light of reason and science and out of the darkness of invisible good ghosts and bad ghosts competing for control of your brain (soul).

If my response is to laugh at you, you're not doing a good job. When I read books that provide evidence contrary to your claims, why should I believe the contrary just because you strongly assert it?

No different than a street preacher decrying evolution.

[Gary]

No. I am saying you could examine the cures. I am saying that medicine cannot tell you about metaphysical questions. Let's suppose that there is a person who has been blind all their life and then they go to their local church. The church prays over them in the name of Jesus and then as soon as they're done praying, the person's eyes are opened and they can see.

A doctor cannot tell you how it came about necessarily. They could only confirm that yes, he has good vision now and yes, he was blind before. The metaphysical question is out of their reach.

Also, you do not have to be a doctor to know that going from being blind to being able to see is a cure.

Does Keener's book have such a case? If I could confirm that a person who has been blind since birth (congenital blindness) was immediately able to see after a prayer to Jesus, I would believe in miracles. However, just because someone in the hinterland of China makes this claim, I am not going to accept it as fact. Even if you say a group of doctors in the hinterland of China confirmed the "miracle" I am not going to believe it until I can review all the evidence and interview the patient and witnesses.

So do you have a case of someone being cured of congenital blindness by prayer, IN THIS COUNTRY, that I can review?