Why I Affirm The Virgin Birth

[Apologiaphoenix]

Gary, we do laugh at people like you because it is like looking at someone who now sees them self as part of the 'cool kids' and comes out with the most outrageously stupid or patronizing things (eg 'I know this will upset Christians' , or like the rant above),thinking he is going to 'wow' the rest of us. Sorry but not all of us are panting to be part of your emperor's-new-clothing style educated majority. You seem to think every Christian on this board is a cookie-cutter version of your fundamentalist Christian self. We aren't. You are a fundamentalist. Once you were a Christian fundamentalist and now you are an anti-christian fundamentalist.

This. This entirely. Does Keener cover people like Benny Hinn. Yes. He does because those are miracle claims and he investigates local newspapers of the time of events to see what happens. As for those people representing 80% of conservative Christianity, please. Says who?

Gary is just someone who thinks that because he's a skeptic he's suddenly brilliant and as Abigail says is sitting with the cool kids now. No. He's not. He's just a wanna-be who is holding on to any ego he can and getting his tail kicked on any topic. He's unable to answer any information about the claims he makes and still wants to declare victory.

It's like playing chess with a pigeon.

[One Bad Pig]

Gary thinks I really waste time with videos. Sorry. Too busy reading books.

You wasted time with this one.

[lilpixieofterror]

Educated people in the West are leaving conservative Christianity in droves. Check your denomination's annual membership and baptism numbers if you don't believe me. They are leaving for the same reason I left: The internet is exposing Christianity as just another ancient superstition.

*snicker*

I hate to interpret such a lovely self righteous, mindless pontifcation of a rant you got going here, but if you're going to try to act like your superior to your opponents, you might want to try not to use such an obvious logical fallacy. It doesn't matter how many people are Christians or not because what matters is if Christianity is true or not. AKA you're using a classic band wagon fallacy. Nice. Of course, I've been online for years and years and have been to school and lo and behold; I haven't become an atheist yet. Hummm... I wonder why...

It's time to abandon this sinking ship, folks. It is a tall tale, and nothing more.

No thanks, I don't think I'm going to join the RMS Fundy Atheist to the bottom of the sea like you seem determined to do.

[lilpixieofterror]

Nick, my point is that the video you are watching represents 80% of conservative Protestant Christianity in the United States.

Hummm interesting because I've been to quite a few church's of many different denominations and types and haven't seen that yet. I suspect you're trying to make things up.

And, the video portrays the very healing services that you and Craig Keener believe prove the reality of miracles. LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING "HEALED", Nick. No amputees. No quadriplegics. It is all emotional hype.

Only time I've really seen that sort of stuff is on TV or internet video's, but of course... you're showing how you lack logical thinking skills yet again. Have people faked scientific findings and claims? Yes they have and therefore, using your logic, nobody can trust science. See, being in the military, I run into a lot of different denominations and groups and do you know how common I've seen this type of experience? Rarely, if ever, have I seen any church service do any of that stuff. Do you have any actual evidence that 80% of 'conservative Protestant Christianity' is like that or did you say something else stupid and really hoping nobody calls you on this bald assertion?

Open your eyes, my friend. Even your denomination, Lutheranism, is being infiltrated (heavily) by the emotionally charged evangelicalism that you snicker at in this video. It may not be in your church yet, but the overwhelming majority of the LCMS now has evangelical type worship, and in order to keep your church from folding, your pastor is seriously considering it if he hasn't adopted it already.

Amazing how you continue to pretend you have magical mind reading powers. Fascinating, when did you gain these magical mind reading powers?

The largest LCMS church in my area has a praise band, a video screen for the "Jesus I love you, love you, love you...music", and people swaying in the aisles, with hands raised, during the service. EMOTIONALISM is taking over conservative Christianity, and you see it in full display in this video. It should seen chills down the spine of every educated, rational person.

So? I wasn't aware that having music and emotions therefore means there is no intellect there at all. Where did you come up with that logic from? You must be a very boring person, now how does music = no intellect? Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and how having a band should 'send chills down the spine of every educated, rational person' or have you never been to a concert and fail to realize how music is a type of poetry that can be used to teach important spiritual lessons as well?

To make my point, here is one of my favorite modern Christian songs:

I enjoy it because it is a short, but well said introduction to the basic message of the Gospel that can easily introduce people to the basic Gospel message, though a nice soothing melody and easy to memorize lyrics. There's tons of versions of the song, sung by lots of different artist too. I'm sorry that you lack any sort of creativity and enjoyment of music, but I'd love to see you try to explain how that video is necessarily a bad thing that should 'send chills down the spine of every educated, rational person'.

[Gary]

This. This entirely. Does Keener cover people like Benny Hinn. Yes. He does because those are miracle claims and he investigates local newspapers of the time of events to see what happens. As for those people representing 80% of conservative Christianity, please. Says who?

Gary is just someone who thinks that because he's a skeptic he's suddenly brilliant and as Abigail says is sitting with the cool kids now. No. He's not. He's just a wanna-be who is holding on to any ego he can and getting his tail kicked on any topic. He's unable to answer any information about the claims he makes and still wants to declare victory.

It's like playing chess with a pigeon.

Name ONE position held by the overwhelming majority of scholars that I have rejected or ignored. You can't. I respect and accept scholarship, what I don't accept or respect is superstition parading as scholarship which is what you and your conservative Christian apologists are all about.

[Apologiaphoenix]

And the reply to the contrary data from myself, Rogue, and Pixie on the Middle Ages is...

Oh right. Gary has to ignore anything that disagrees with him.

[Gary]

delete

[Gary]

Hummm interesting because I've been to quite a few church's of many different denominations and types and haven't seen that yet. I suspect you're trying to make things up.



Only time I've really seen that sort of stuff is on TV or internet video's, but of course... you're showing how you lack logical thinking skills yet again. Have people faked scientific findings and claims? Yes they have and therefore, using your logic, nobody can trust science. See, being in the military, I run into a lot of different denominations and groups and do you know how common I've seen this type of experience? Rarely, if ever, have I seen any church service do any of that stuff. Do you have any actual evidence that 80% of 'conservative Protestant Christianity' is like that or did you say something else stupid and really hoping nobody calls you on this bald assertion?



Amazing how you continue to pretend you have magical mind reading powers. Fascinating, when did you gain these magical mind reading powers?



So? I wasn't aware that having music and emotions therefore means there is no intellect there at all. Where did you come up with that logic from? You must be a very boring person, now how does music = no intellect? Can you explain how you came to that conclusion and how having a band should 'send chills down the spine of every educated, rational person' or have you never been to a concert and fail to realize how music is a type of poetry that can be used to teach important spiritual lessons as well?

To make my point, here is one of my favorite modern Christian songs:

I enjoy it because it is a short, but well said introduction to the basic message of the Gospel that can easily introduce people to the basic Gospel message, though a nice soothing melody and easy to memorize lyrics. There's tons of versions of the song, sung by lots of different artist too. I'm sorry that you lack any sort of creativity and enjoyment of music, but I'd love to see you try to explain how that video is necessarily a bad thing that should 'send chills down the spine of every educated, rational person'.

Imagine coming upon a group of children who are singing songs of love and adoration to their friend, Max. As they sing, "I love you, Max. I love you, Max. I love you, Max..." tears stream down their faces, their hands are reaching upward to the heavens, and they sway to the music with their eyes looking upward as if in a trance.

When you inquire about Max, you find out that Max has been dead for two thousand years.

Scary.

[tabibito]

And the reply to the contrary data from myself, Rogue, and Pixie on the Middle Ages is...

Oh right. Gary has to ignore anything that disagrees with him.

Except when it is authoritative disagreement that demolishes disintegrates his argument - for which he seems to think vituperation and condescension make a valid rebuttal.

[Gary]

And the reply to the contrary data from myself, Rogue, and Pixie on the Middle Ages is...

Oh right. Gary has to ignore anything that disagrees with him.

What percentage of historians hold your position that the Dark Ages were a time of brilliant scientific advancement, and not a period of regression from the days of the Greek and Roman empires (pre-Christianity)? If you can prove to me that even 70% of historians believe this to be the case, I will abandon my current position, and accept the consensus.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Imagine coming across someone who speaks on topics without knowing anything about them, ignores challenges to his authority, makes hideous analogies that don't apply, and then declares he is a man of reason.

Funny.

[Gary]

Except when it is authoritative disagreement that demolishes disintegrates his argument - for which he seems to think vituperation and condescension make a valid rebuttal.

Such as which position, Tab? Be specific if you are going to make an accusation.

[Apologiaphoenix]

What percentage of historians hold your position that the Dark Ages were a time of brilliant scientific advancement, and not a period of regression from the days of the Greek and Roman empires (pre-Christianity)? If you can prove to me that even 70% of historians believe this to be the case, I will abandon my current position, and accept the consensus.

How about you respond to the data presented.

Whoops! That means you have to think for yourself and do actual research.

Oh well. It was a nice thought, but you can't help someone who wants to live in an echochamber of their own thoughts.

[Gary]

Imagine coming across someone who speaks on topics without knowing anything about them, ignores challenges to his authority, makes hideous analogies that don't apply, and then declares he is a man of reason.

Funny.

Which position of the overwhelming majority of scholars have I challenged, Nick? Provide the evidence for your accusation are admit you are bearing false witness (lying).

[lilpixieofterror]

Imagine coming upon a group of children who are singing songs of love and adoration to their friend, Max. As they sing, "I love you, Max. I love you, Max. I love you, Max..." tears stream down their faces, their hands are reaching upward to the heavens, and they sway to the music with their eyes looking upward as if in a trance.

When you inquire about Max, you find out that Max has been dead for two thousand years.

Scary.

Wow, that has to be among the stupidest things I've read today and perhaps will be among the dumbest things I'll read this week. The week is still young, so I'm sure you can end up topping it. Don't disappoint me. Now how about we try this:

The reason it is wrong for people to have an emotional connection to something is...

This is where you actually develop an argument vs your usual mindless pontifications.