Announcement
Collapse
Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines
Notice The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less
Why The Sermon on the Mount?
Collapse
X
-
"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
-
A decade or so ago when I did a thorough analysis of Jesus's teachings in the gospels, this passage stood out to be as being by far the most inconsistent with the rest. All of the rest of Jesus's teachings in the gospels are consistent with a social reformer who is rejecting the ritual purity requirements of the Law and is focusing on the morality of helping those in need. It actually surprised me how much close to everything was consistent with that one theme, and if I were doing a Jesus Seminar style bible where the passages were colored by how likely Jesus was to have said them I would be fine giving the vast vast majority of the teachings recorded in the gospels pretty high likelihoods of being close to something said by the historical Jesus. This passage though... it's the one really glaring exception that stands in strong opposition to everything else Jesus focuses on, so I really have to regard it as a later addition."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostA decade or so ago when I did a thorough analysis of Jesus's teachings in the gospels, this passage stood out to be as being by far the most inconsistent with the rest. All of the rest of Jesus's teachings in the gospels are consistent with a social reformer who is rejecting the ritual purity requirements of the Law and is focusing on the morality of helping those in need. It actually surprised me how much close to everything was consistent with that one theme, and if I were doing a Jesus Seminar style bible where the passages were colored by how likely Jesus was to have said them I would be fine giving the vast vast majority of the teachings recorded in the gospels pretty high likelihoods of being close to something said by the historical Jesus. This passage though... it's the one really glaring exception that stands in strong opposition to everything else Jesus focuses on, so I really have to regard it as a later addition.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostA decade or so ago when I did a thorough analysis of Jesus's teachings in the gospels,
All of the rest of Jesus's teachings in the gospels are consistent with a social reformer who is rejecting the ritual purity requirements of the Law and is focusing on the morality of helping those in need.
It actually surprised me how much close to everything was consistent with that one theme, and if I were doing a Jesus Seminar style bible where the passages were colored
This passage though... it's the one really glaring exception that stands in strong opposition to everything else Jesus focuses on, so I really have to regard it as a later addition.Last edited by jpholding; 06-04-2020, 10:18 AM.
Comment
-
When I saw JPH was the final poster in this thread, I predicted two things... a post choc full of insults and a post providing no useful substance. Unsurprisingly I was right on both. Some people just don't change. I found this behaviour of his pretty embarrassing back when I was a Christian and member of the Cadre, and steered clear of him. It provides a terrible Christian witness.
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostWhat is inconsistent about it?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostWhen I saw JPH was the final poster in this thread, I predicted two things..
2) Starscream playing the usual Victim Scheme he's had in practice for over 200 million years.
It's a fine excuse to ignore the weaknesses in his pitiable "arguments" he got out of the gumball machine.
econsistently rejects the ritual purity requirements of the law and emphasise helping those in need as being all-important. This passage with its emphasis on adherence to even the smallest parts of the law runs pretty squarely contrary to that theme.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View Post
Jesus' teachings throughout the gospels consistently rejects the ritual purity requirements of the law and emphasise helping those in need as being all-important. This passage with its emphasis on adherence to even the smallest parts of the law runs pretty squarely contrary to that theme.
Comment
-
Originally posted by jpholding View Postcovenantal law and the principles of honor.
If you want to improve your understanding of these ideas, there's a bunch of decent stuff by Malina & Pilch & Rohrbaugh together and separately which can give you a firm grasp of the basics of NT culture, or frankly anything titled The New Testament in it's cultural context or similar. With regard to ideas about covenantal law, there are enough different views among scholars that it's hard to recommend any particular thing, but maybe reading Sanders' Paul and Palestinian Judaism, and VanLandingham's Judgment & Justification In Early Judaism And The Apostle Paul, would together introduce you to a couple of different viewpoints."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Postbut seeing as He is YHWH in the flesh
prophetthey regarded him as a prophetJohnElijaha prophetprophetJohn the Baptist; but others, Elijah; and still others, that one of the ancient prophetsprophetprophetpropheta prophet
There are plenty more passages to the same effect. The gospels are clear that the way the general public understood Jesus, including many he interacted with directly (e.g. healed), was in the traditional Jewish category of "prophet". Possibly a resurrection/reincarnation of a previous specific prophet.
Jesus own public statements don't seem to reject this public understanding of himself as a prophet, and at times he reaffirms it pretty explicitly:
I think it's fair to say that if the gospel writers were wanting to project their own theology back onto Jesus, the easiest way for them to do that would be in their narration sections where they are outright giving their own theology (e.g. John 1:1), and the second-easiest would be to record Jesus saying things in private to the disciples (e.g. Matt 16:16,20) because nobody could fact-check secret/private teachings (and indeed, a number of writings about private/secret teachings of Jesus seem to have appeared in the 2nd century). Whereas, insofar as there were people around who had heard Jesus themselves or knew the stories about Jesus' preaching, it would be harder for the gospel writers to take liberties with misrepresenting the public's understanding of Jesus and with the public teachings of Jesus. It seems pretty clear that in his lifetime Jesus was understood by the public to be a prophet - all the gospels attest to this, and that later some of his followers would convince themselves that he was something more than a prophet, and that perhaps (or perhaps not) he had given hints of this to a chosen few in some private teachings not known to the general populace (and I would say we can see a bit of a progression over time with regard to exactly what 'more than' a prophet actually entailed).
But the gospels attest that the public's understanding of Jesus was as a prophet. So I think you're doing a bit of disservice to the text in this thread when you try and reinterpret the Sermon on the Mount through your own God-Incarnate theology and point to things like speaking with authority as proof of that God-Incarnate theology. The gospels are clear that those who heard him immediately thought "prophet". And I'll grant you your point that this was probably because he taught with authority unlike the standard teachers of the law, who didn't purport to be prophets or to be giving new teachings from God like prophets were understood to do.Last edited by Starlight; 06-05-2020, 02:35 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Apologiaphoenix, Yesterday, 10:17 PM
|
0 responses
3 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Yesterday, 10:17 PM | ||
Started by Apologiaphoenix, 06-13-2024, 05:11 PM
|
1 response
27 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
06-14-2024, 07:12 AM
|
||
Started by Apologiaphoenix, 06-12-2024, 10:08 PM
|
1 response
24 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by JimL
06-13-2024, 04:33 PM
|
||
Started by Apologiaphoenix, 06-04-2024, 09:09 PM
|
4 responses
48 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 06-05-2024, 09:09 PM | ||
Started by Apologiaphoenix, 06-03-2024, 09:40 PM
|
0 responses
12 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 06-03-2024, 09:40 PM |
Comment