The swoon theory has been dead for centuries at the hands of liberals. That Gary reaches for it again shows he is not familiar with scholarship.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostThe soldier ran him through with a spear ... water and blood came out. That happens if a person is dead - blood solids partially separated from plasma. And it was worthy of comment - he hadn't been dead long enough for the process to be so far advanced.
The fact that the story claims Jesus died within a few hours of having a couple of nails stuck in his extremities casts doubt on the historicity of the whole account. If we took you out and nailed you to a cross with a couple of nails, you would NOT die within a few hours. It would take DAYS for you to die. That is the whole point of crucifixion: to drag out the victim's death as long as possible, making him suffer for days. Jesus most probably died by crucifixion but we cannot rely on the four Gospels as accurate accounts of how that happened. These accounts were written decades after the event by anonymous sources. All the many, many discrepancies (Jesus' last words, who was at the cross, etc) make more sense when one accepts that the original story in Mark was mostly a fabrication written for theological purposes, not an historical account, and the discrepancies in the other Gospel accounts are simply newer embellishments to the tale.
This tall tale gets fishier and fishier the more one examines it.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostIF the story is historical.
The fact that the story claims Jesus died within a few hours of having a couple of nails stuck in his extremities casts doubt on the historicity of the whole account. If we took you out and nailed you to a cross with a couple of nails, you would NOT die within a few hours. It would take DAYS for you to die. That is the whole point of crucifixion: to drag out the victim's death as long as possible, making him suffer for days. Jesus most probably died by crucifixion but we cannot rely on the four Gospels as accurate accounts of how that happened. These accounts were written decades after the event by anonymous sources. All the many, many discrepancies (Jesus' last words, who was at the cross, etc) make more sense when one accepts that the original story in Mark was mostly a fabrication written for theological purposes, not an historical account, and the discrepancies in the other Gospel accounts are simply newer embellishments to the tale.
This tall tale gets fishier and fishier the more one examines it.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Gary View PostIF the story is historical.
The fact that the story claims Jesus died within a few hours of having a couple of nails stuck in his extremities casts doubt on the historicity of the whole account. If we took you out and nailed you to a cross with a couple of nails, you would NOT die within a few hours. It would take DAYS for you to die. That is the whole point of crucifixion: to drag out the victim's death as long as possible, making him suffer for days. Jesus most probably died by crucifixion but we cannot rely on the four Gospels as accurate accounts of how that happened. These accounts were written decades after the event by anonymous sources. All the many, many discrepancies (Jesus' last words, who was at the cross, etc) make more sense when one accepts that the original story in Mark was mostly a fabrication written for theological purposes, not an historical account, and the discrepancies in the other Gospel accounts are simply newer embellishments to the tale.
This tall tale gets fishier and fishier the more one examines it.
You have Pilate expressing surprise that he had died so quickly despite the fact that he had been subjected to thirty nine lashes - which in itself is close to the survival limit.
He had an unexpectedly quick death: the Bible records the fact that it was unexpectedly quick - and you have people now saying that he couldn't have died in such a short time - ignoring, perhaps as wilfully as you yourself do - any relevant details that might have had an impact on the events and on their own "assessments".1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostThe swoon theory has been dead for centuries at the hands of liberals. That Gary reaches for it again shows he is not familiar with scholarship.
It's another preposterous claim to add to the dozens of preposterous claims in these four first century books; books written decades after the event, by anonymous writers, based on the stories of anonymous, superstitious, mostly uneducated, mostly peasant sources.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostThe swoon theory has been dead for centuries at the hands of liberals. That Gary reaches for it again shows he is not familiar with scholarship.
This is really getting embarrassing for Gary.
Josephus recounts three crucified men being taken down from the cross. Despite the best medical care of the day, two of them died. Crucifixion was fatal even if the victim was removed from the cross. Jesus wasn't. I think the AMA did an examination of crucifixion a number of years ago, actually.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostLiterally nobody believes the swoon theory. The death on the cross is, with exception of two scholars, universally accepted.
This is really getting embarrassing for Gary.
Lizard Smile 1.jpg1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Gary View PostI don't believe in the swoon theory. My point is that the Gospels say that Jesus died within just a few hours after having a couple of nails driven into his extremities. People don't die from crucifixion in a couple of hours unless their legs have been broken. The Bible says that Jesus leg's were not broken. Therefore the claim of the Gospels that Jesus died of nail wounds in just a few hours is highly questionable. It would be like someone today claiming that Joe the Carpenter drove a nail through his foot (accidently with a nail gun)...and DIED THREE HOURS LATER!
It's another preposterous claim to add to the dozens of preposterous claims in these four first century books; books written decades after the event, by anonymous writers, based on the stories of anonymous, superstitious, mostly uneducated, mostly peasant sources.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostJAMA did an article. Jesus was dead.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....ticleid=403315
I question the historicity of the STORY that surrounds his death.
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