Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

[Mikeenders]

Is it really that easy to Promote/spam links to your own blog here at TW? :)

engage in no real debate. insult the members and then leave a link

[Mikeenders]

Agreed, but its sort of traditional - and what could be used to replace it? Expositorics?

lol...that sounds more like the history of flashers


I see various versions of "Christian Evidences"

[Gary]

Is it really that easy to Promote/spam links to your own blog here at TW? :)

engage in no real debate. insult the members and then leave a link

I wish I could say I miss you, Mikey, but that would only add to my long list of sins: a bald face lie.

[Mikeenders]

Go in peace Gary. I see you are leading nowadays with the bloviating piece about analogies. Perhaps someone (not me of course) will be along to explain to you and the author what the word analogy means (and why a single reference to "Ancient document rules" doesn't change it)

Old MacDonald could not have had more straw.

[One Bad Pig]

My dear friends on Theology Web,

I miss you guys.

I really do. I am experiencing an intense grief reaction since our discussions here ended.

After a whole day away?

[tabibito]

lol...that sounds more like the history of flashers


I see various versions of "Christian Evidences"

In the final analysis, it boils down to whether we believe the testimony of the authors of the Bible. They were either honest or con-men: what they describe can't be ascribed to delusion or to misidentification of events (weather balloon mistaken for flying saucer kind of stuff) ... either they knew that what they were describing was dinkum or they knew it was bull-dust. Further, it doesn't matter (empirically) when the gospels were written or by whom: Paul's epistles are enough to establish the early beliefs of the church, and history confirms the execution of Christian leaders well enough to show that atheists are telling us we should believe that so many risked and suffered death rather than admit to promulgating bald faced lies.
Before any atheist can get down to dealing with miracles, he needs to establish a case for believing that the writers of the New Testament were liars, and why such lies were embraced by such a broad cross section of Hellenistic society and through such a vast area and differing cultures: all in the face of pre-established religious practices, which, according to atheists, predominantly determine what religion a person will adopt (if any).

[psstein]

Indeed. This reminds me of John Loftus who goes on and on about people being brainwashed.

John Loftus is so much fun to read. He somehow manages to exclude himself (and his beliefs) from any examination, but loves to call everyone else irrational.

[Apologiaphoenix]

John Loftus is so much fun to read. He somehow manages to exclude himself (and his beliefs) from any examination, but loves to call everyone else irrational.

Did you see his last debate with David Wood?

[Apologiaphoenix]

After a whole day away?

We're just so lovable. That's it.

I suspect it might have said something to do with Matt Ferguson saying Gary needed to use his own arguments.

Gary has none of his own.

[Littlejoe]

After a whole day away?

His "goodbyes" are as bad as his supposed arguments.

[Gary]

His "goodbyes" are as bad as his supposed arguments.

I know how you feel, guys, because I was once one of you. I laughed at the arguments and criticisms of atheists and other skeptics. I was so certain that my Christian belief system was THE Truth. I was so sure that skeptics were God-hating idiots who refused to look at the evidence for Jesus and his Resurrection simply because they did not want to believe. They did not want to submit to the will of God and repent of their sinful lifestyles.

But, dear Christian friends, please try to step out of your worldview and see your belief system as non-Christians see it. Non-Christians see your supernatural beliefs as no less preposterous, and no less silly, than if I were to make the following claim on the internet:


Dear American public,

I would like to share with you the most important event in all of human history. Forty years ago today, my grandfather died and was buried. However, three days later he was brought back to life by the ancient Roman god, Jupiter, given a superhero-like, immortal body, capable of walking through locked doors and teleporting between cities. Then, after a forty day fishing trip with some of his closest buddies, he was beamed up into the clouds from a mountain in Oregon into a inter-galactic space vehicle which then traveled at super-sonic speed to the outer edges of space, where he sits on a throne of gold at this very moment, but will come again in two thousand years to judge the living and the dead.

My grandfather is God, the Creator.

Believe in him as your Lord and Savior, or perish.

Analysis: I would be laughed off the internet and possibly committed to a mental health institution. And you would join in the laughter. But, dear Christians, your story of Jesus is just as silly as my story. You can claim to have thousands of scholars who believe this and that about the life of Jesus and about early Christian beliefs, but NO educated, non-Christian believes you have one shred of evidence for a first century resurrection. Saying that you do is just as ridiculous to the non-Christian world as my claim that my grandfather is the resurrected Creator of the Universe.

It is nonsensical, friends.

The Bible says that the world will consider believers of this supernatural story to be foolish. What if...you really are being foolish to believe this tall tale?

Would you, dear friends, based on the same level and quality of evidence which you believe that Christians have for the resurrection of Jesus, believe the claim that the leader of some other world religion died, was brain dead for three days, was then resurrected in an immortal, superhero-like body, and then was witnessed by many people to fly off into the clouds without mechanical assistance? I don't think you would. I think you would demand much, much more evidence than what your are demanding for your own religion's supernatural claims.

Please stop accepting "scholarly" spin for believing the Christian equivalent of Islam's winged-horse-flying prophet tall tale.

You are all smart, intelligent people but you have been mislead. It's time to accept the REAL truth: Jesus is dead and Yahweh doesn't exist.

[tabibito]

First give us a solid case for believing the writers of the New Testament were bare faced liars. Then deal with the fact that the existence of a god - any god - would make miracles inevitable under the right circumstances. If you can't deal with the first, you have no hope of dealing with the second.

[psstein]

Did you see his last debate with David Wood?

Yes I did, actually on Memorial Day. His "argument" basically boiled down to "we don't have the originals; we can't trust the copies," which eliminates all of ancient history.

The best attack on the Resurrection simply involves denying the empty tomb. The best work I've seen (Crossley especially) does exactly that.

[tabibito]

Yes I did, actually on Memorial Day. His "argument" basically boiled down to "we don't have the originals; we can't trust the copies," which eliminates all of ancient history.

The best attack on the Resurrection simply involves denying the empty tomb. The best work I've seen (Crossley especially) does exactly that.

That's weird - the empty tomb itself seems to me fairly solid.

[37818]

I think the parable of the sower explains Gary's turning from the truth.

". . . he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended." -- Matthew 13:20-21.