Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

[psstein]

ANE slavery was very different from what we usually consider slavery (i.e. the American South).

[psstein]

Can parrotguy come up with anything original that we haven't seen/heard before? Gary must think we all grew up in a Christian bubble removed from any sources that are critical of Christianity.

He seems to think that all of us were born Christian, have never had doubts, and simply remain due to blind faith.

[Gary]

No-one with any appreciation of history in general or of the church in particular would pay any attention to your outlandish assertions. Do you think there was some sort of free labour market where manumitted slaves could just go and pick up work at the drop of a hat? Poor people sold themselves into slavery so as to be better off.
Christian masters of slaves were required to treat those slaves in humane, even gracious fashion, and to treat their Christian slaves as brothers.
Christian leaders of the time were adherent to the mandates of Christ, which, in regard to non-Christian society, was simply to extend the invitation to partake of the opportunity for salvation. There was no attempt to control those who rejected Christianity, the task was to maintain order within the church.

You are obviously so brainwashed by your cult that you cannot see just how sick your justifications for this evil institution are. You need some serious deprogramming, Tabby. I strongly recommend that you start reading the following blogs to begin the cult-deprogramming process:

1. Debunking Christianity
2. The Sam Harris Blog
3. The Bart Ehrman Blog
4. The Secular Outpost

[Gary]

ROFL....this coming from the person who just maintained that morality is whatever the herd says it is. Really Gary we can all see through this fake circus like moral outrage on your part. didn't think we could? BY your own rationality you would justify slavery since it was what the herd said was moral. It took the minority yet reading their Bible to come to the conclusion it was wrong ( from reading their Bible) that led to the abolition of slavery in the civilized world - A bare fact truth that rebuts, destroys, chews up and spits out your claims against christianity.

Sorry Gary you lose again. The history of abolition is one of Christians being Christians and reading their Bible being motivated by doing so to end slavery. Its a historical fact you can do nothing to change. Thank God they didn't believe in your whatever the herd says is moral is moral argument or else my ancestors and I would still be slaves and you would own and mistreat slaves just as your ancestors no doubt did. As a matter of fact you even now are in bad moral company. The only people I ever see equate all slavery being the same are present day racists themselves (can't rule you out) who try to equate their ancestor's race based blacks are sub human so we can kidnap them and ship them across the middle passage to serve us kind of slavery with all slavery most of which was not base don race and did not confer with it sub humanity which your ancestors made up to add to their atrocities. Today's closet racists (do you wish to come out?) do this to make themselves feel better about their family's history. After all if all slavery is the same and many nations and races have kept slaves then that takes the extra heat against white slave owners such as your ancestors off. ;)



sure we are willing but those of us who know our bible don't need to say it because Paul and Peter did condemn slavery when they stated that all were one in Christ and that slaves should be treated as brothers (therefore changing the nature of the relationship and making all slaves in christian households into family members/brothers and sisters). Your dullness to see the point is of little consequence (except in pointing out the dullness). It was this redefinition that ended slavery when Wilberforce successfully argued for its abolition as being unchristian.

so not only was the scriptural redefinition more moral it was historical proven to be effective in ending slavery whereas your "herd is morality" would have done no such thing. epic fail.

P.S. in regard to Youtube videos - if you think on page 200+ of any forum you have people wandering in and watching weak Sam Harris atheist propaganda videos rather than the discussion (which you always seem to lose in) you are even mor edelusional than you appear in posts to be.

since you seem to be too obtuse to figure it out - the mods here allow you to go on because your posts make pretty good exhibits of empty headed atheist fundamentalism. Continue to entertain us. We will restock the popcorn.

You are immoral and cannot see it. You are brainwashed and do not realize it. You are sick and need psychiatric care.

Seek help, my friend. I would encourage you to begin deprogramming from your evil cult by reading the same blogs I recommended to Tabby above.

[Gary]

ANE slavery was very different from what we usually consider slavery (i.e. the American South).

Not according to the author of I Peter. He knew that some masters beat their slaves. Not all slave holders in the South beat their slaves, but, they could have if they wanted to. The same was true in the NT era.

Paul should have told Christian slaveholders to FREE their slaves, not just to treat them nicely.

The Bible is an immoral book written by immoral people.

[Apologiaphoenix]

We read books by people who disagree with us.

It's so amusing that I have interviews with leading scholars that Gary doesn't listen to.

But if he puts up a website or YouTube video, that's authoritative.

DRINK!

[Christianbookworm]

You are obviously so brainwashed by your cult that you cannot see just how sick your justifications for this evil institution are. You need some serious deprogramming, Tabby. I strongly recommend that you start reading the following blogs to begin the cult-deprogramming process:

1. Debunking Christianity
2. The Sam Harris Blog
3. The Bart Ehrman Blog
4. The Secular Outpost

Sam Harris and Bart Ehrman! You really are a hoot, Gary.

[Gary]

Drink!

Yes, drink from the intoxicating Kool-Aid of your superstitious, immoral cult. It may not kill you, but it is responsible for the deaths and persecution of countless millions for the last 2,000 years. It is one of the greatest evils ever known to mankind.

[Gary]

Can parrotguy come up with anything original that we haven't seen/heard before? Gary must think we all grew up in a Christian bubble removed from any sources that are critical of Christianity.

Brainwashed members of cults must often hear the evidence against their cult over and over and over again before it finally breaks through the thick layers of superstitious indoctrination that protects their brain from reality. Keep reading, Wormy. Keep reading. My hope is that one day you will see just how evil and dangerous your belief system is.

Free yourself of this immoral cult and embrace the beauty of Reason and Science.

[Christianbookworm]

Not according to the author of I Peter. He knew that some masters beat their slaves. Not all slave holders in the South beat their slaves, but, they could have if they wanted to. The same was true in the NT era.

Paul should have told Christian slaveholders to FREE their slaves, not just to treat them nicely.

The Bible is an immoral book written by immoral people.

Silly hominid, nothing is that simple. Real life is complicated. I don't know what happy golden tower you come from that you can't realize that. I knew the whole world wasn't like a children's cartoon where the problems can be solved in half an hour in middle school if not earlier.

[Gary]

We read books by people who disagree with us.

It's so amusing that I have interviews with leading scholars that Gary doesn't listen to.

But if he puts up a website or YouTube video, that's authoritative.

DRINK!

Nick, how many times must I point out to you that your scholars are ONLY scholars of the early Christian belief in a resurrection, not in resurrections/reanimations themselves. I have no disagreement with the overwhelming majority position regarding the early Christian belief in a resurrection. But there are ZERO scholars in resurrections/animations. Zero. I asked you to point out even ONE of my positions that contradicts the overwhelming majority (>90%) of historians and ancient Near East scholars. You never have, but you continue your straw man accusation that I refuse to accept the opinions of scholars! Put up or shut up, Nick...please. :)

[tabibito]

Not according to the author of I Peter. He knew that some masters beat their slaves. Not all slave holders in the South beat their slaves, but, they could have if they wanted to. The same was true in the NT era.

Demonstrate that Peter was referring to Christian masters of slaves who mistreated them. Or do you think perhaps, that only Christian masters had Christians slaves? What does context tell you? ... oh yes - you wouldn't have a clue what context is.

Paul should have told Christian slaveholders to FREE their slaves, not just to treat them nicely.

Really? Free them into what, exactly? Some sort of free labour market where they would be better off? People who had the chance sold themselves into slavery so that they could get a better life. And Christian masters offered a far better deal than the average slave owner offered.

The Bible is an immoral book written by immoral people.

The way you behave here, anyone would be justified in thinking that the only morals you have are stolen property.

[Gary]

Silly hominid, nothing is that simple. Real life is complicated. I don't know what happy golden tower you come from that you can't realize that. I knew the whole world wasn't like a children's cartoon where the problems can be solved in half an hour in middle school if not earlier.

Yes, Paul could condemn adulterers, fornicators, and men involved in homosexuality, but he had to tread lightly regarding slavery.

Baloney!

Open your eyes, my brain-washed friend.

[Gary]

Demonstrate that Peter was referring to Christian masters of slaves who mistreated them. Or do you think perhaps, that only Christian masters had Christians slaves? What does context tell you? ... oh yes - you wouldn't have a clue what context is.

Really? Free them into what, exactly? Some sort of free labour market where they would be better off? People who had the chance sold themselves into slavery so that they could get a better life. And Christian masters offered a far better deal than the average slave owner offered.

The way you behave here, anyone would be justified in thinking that the only morals you have are stolen property.

Christian slaver owners could have made their slaves free men and paid them a wage to do the work they were already doing.

[Christianbookworm]

Brainwashed members of cults must often hear the evidence against their cult over and over and over again before it finally breaks through the thick layers of superstitious indoctrination that protects their brain from reality. Keep reading, Wormy. Keep reading. My hope is that one day you will see just how evil and dangerous your belief system is.

Free yourself of this immoral cult and embrace the beauty of Reason and Science.

I searched for the evidence and found it in my teens. I've always known it's okay to ask questions and search out for the truth. I have not remained at the information level I had at eight years of age. I've also researched real cults and am certainly not in one. No mere human can tell me what to believe with no questions permitted. Even if some being claimed to be God, I'd still look for verification.