Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

[Gary]

My answer is, "I don't know. That's above my pay grade."

You have one of the worst outlooks on life I've ever seen.

It is called "reality" without superstitions.

[Gary]

You are so ignorant that it is actually funny watching you stumble.

Universalism isn't the only view that thinks a majority of people will not be in Hell

Please educate yourself on annihilationism and inclusivism.

You really don't know as much as you think you know.

If your god punishes even one person who has rejected him as their slave master by putting that person in a dark room for twenty four hours then your god is a sick tyrant. A tyrant who inflicts torture on people simply for not loving him and obeying his every whim. Your god is a sick concept invented by ignorant Bronze Age nomads. No educated person today should believe in the existence of Zeus, Jupiter, or the blood-thirsty Yahweh.

[Gary]

Suffering does build character and it makes moral progression possible.

We live in a world where humanity needs to avoid cases where people are tortured and to get to this point we have to WORK for it.

Atheists like Gary want to take the lazy way out and expect a God that just gives us everything from the start even though we didn't earn it.

Ha.

I don't expect anything of Yahweh because Yahweh is a non-entity. What I work for is the elimination of all fundamentalist religious superstitions which condone suffering and torture in the name of "suffering builds character" and "it is the will of my god".

What a sick belief system. ISIS uses the same philosophy.

[tabibito]

So you do believe that I will suffer some form of discomfort/punishment for my thought crime of rejecting Jesus as my Lord and Master? If true, by the common definition of the term, you are a religious fundamentalist. And I would bet that Nick and others here also qualify as religious fundamentalists.

Here is a good definition of fundamentalism:

1. They (fundamentalists) are counter-modernist.

Most likely meant to be "anti-modernist".

Anyone who thinks that there was a "past golden age" doesn't know history. But of course, there are those who invent histories to underpin their causes and grant themselves justification for behaviour that would be repellent even if their claims were true.

The tendency is noted among any number of persons, not just religious, who think they have an axe to grind. Hostility (verbal or physical) toward any person that doesn't affirm their standards of assumed superiority would be expected.

These would tend to assume an air of intellectual or moral superiority, I expect.

4. Public marks of distinction are needed to maintain their sense of superiority and distinctive identity.

They would make their presence felt in public, perhaps on the web if no-where else. Twitter "personalities" and the like, parading their superiority for all to see, much as 2000 years ago, a pharisee might broaden his phylactery.

That is noticable among any number of groups - including the atheists that turned on Richard Dawkins when he failed to perform to the standard required after "elevatorgate".

5. There is only one true religion and one correct way of life; and these must be defended against inroads from other religions and secularism.

Secularism, in the minds of some, is the "one correct way of life" that must be defended against inroads from other ideologies.

Yes - he will persecute or denigrate all who fail to accept his opinion as the only enlightened and intellectually valid position.

6. There is an inerrant holy book, prophet or charismatic leader to whom literal obedience is mandatory.

Not necessarily - a school of thought can also be the thing to which obedience is mandatory.

7. Law and authority come from God.

Again - not necessarily: he might consider (his branch of) the school of thought to be the only one that has the moral and intellectual superiority necessary to make valid decisions in such matters.

Or the school of thought's, imposing rules that dictate who may associate with whom, and under what circumstances; denying people the right to choose with whom they associate. All must submit to the overarching desire of the school of thought's opinion of what is right or suffer the consequences.

8. Female sexuality must be controlled and clear impassable boundaries must be established between men and women.

Oh come now. Fundamentalist feminists do the same with regard to males. And you forgot to mention that there is always a valid excuse rationalisation for why this opinion is valid.

About Islamic writings, I don't know - but certainly there is no validity in the charge with regard to scripture.

Well yes, for some reason fundamentalists do have a thing about imposing their opinions about sexuality on people who have no interest in being imposed upon.

10. Fundamentalism and nationalism converge.

Of course.

Oh certainly - we see that played out on a daily basis almost. Certain groups seek to bring the law to bear - on dissenters from their particular brand of morality - with penalties for being presumptuous enough to want to go about their lives in a manner that is in accord with their conscience, and publicly vilify and demonise them for wishing to do so. Oh - that would be the LGBT community.


Copied and redacted from: http://vridar.org/2007/06/29/10-char...undamentalism/

All up - the religious fundamentalist is simply an example of an ideologue - though the religious fundamentalist is perhaps more likely to wear a funny hat.
Others here may disagree, but I get the impression that Gary comes closer to meeting the definitions than any other participant in this thread, and it would be difficult to find more than a handful in all of TWeb that are better examples of the ideologue.

[Christianbookworm]

So, what would you have happen to the wicked murderer that refuses to repent and wants to hurt others? One can't put the guy with the rest of humanity because the wicked person would continue trying to hurt and bully others. Solitary confinement might not be very nice, but it would be needed to keep everyone else safe from the guy's bullying.

[tabibito]

So, what would you have happen to the wicked murderer that refuses to repent and wants to hurt others? One can't put the guy with the rest of humanity because the wicked person would continue trying to hurt and bully others. Solitary confinement might not be very nice, but it would be needed to keep everyone else safe from the guy's bullying.

How could you! Fancy expecting that a gate-crasher should be prevented from imposing misery on people who want to live in peace ... Don't you know that he has the right to pursue happiness, regardless of the effect that might have on others?

[One Bad Pig]

It is called "reality" without superstitions.

You think "horrific misery and suffering for thousands of years" is "reality." In that case, why be a doctor and try to help people live longer? You're only exposing them to prolonged horrific misery and suffering, you heartless monster.

[Gary]

So, what would you have happen to the wicked murderer that refuses to repent and wants to hurt others? One can't put the guy with the rest of humanity because the wicked person would continue trying to hurt and bully others. Solitary confinement might not be very nice, but it would be needed to keep everyone else safe from the guy's bullying.

Put him in a regular prison for life...not eternity. We don't put murderers in solitary confinement for life. That is considered cruel and unusual punishment in our society. Some murderers might deserve it, but we don't do it.

[Gary]

You think "horrific misery and suffering for thousands of years" is "reality." In that case, why be a doctor and try to help people live longer? You're only exposing them to prolonged horrific misery and suffering, you heartless monster.

Your logic and reasoning are very twisted. This is evidence of the severe mental damage that your cult's brainwashing does to the brains of young, impressionable children. I am working to expose and debunk your cult so that future generations of young people do not grow up to have the deluded, immoral thinking that you unfortunately do.

I guarantee you that if any nonbeliever (other than Red Sea) reads this thread he or she will find your explanations for excusing Yahweh's immoral behavior as repugnant, appalling, and extremely immoral.

[Cornell]

If your god punishes even one person who has rejected him as their slave master by putting that person in a dark room for twenty four hours then your god is a sick tyrant. A tyrant who inflicts torture on people simply for not loving him and obeying his every whim. Your god is a sick concept invented by ignorant Bronze Age nomads. No educated person today should believe in the existence of Zeus, Jupiter, or the blood-thirsty Yahweh.

Gary

Newsflash

You don't determine who is a sick tyrant and who isn't. All your emotions boil down to is an opinion. An opinion that is the result...of get this a mindless evolutionary process lol

I don't think you have a clue on what annihilationism or inclusivism is, because if you did you would realize that this response of yours makes no sense.

You have to come to terms with the fact that you are ignorant of positions available to Christians. Stop assuming you know more than you do.

[Cornell]

Your logic and reasoning are very twisted. This is evidence of the severe mental damage that your cult's brainwashing does to the brains of young, impressionable children. I am working to expose and debunk your cult so that future generations of young people do not grow up to have the deluded, immoral thinking that you unfortunately do.

I guarantee you that if any nonbeliever (other than Red Sea) reads this thread he or she will find your explanations for excusing Yahweh's immoral behavior as repugnant, appalling, and extremely immoral.

All I see is here a big 'nuh uh' and BS rhetoric. You will always fail to debunk what you THINK you are debunking, because you are so incredibly ignorant of the options available to Christians

You are in no moral position to make moral complaints, because according to your BS worldview you are nothing more than matter in motion who is a result of a cosmic accident. All your moral complaints are just emotions due to matter fizzing one way rather another, and I devote my life to showing everyone how incredibly stupid atheism is and how every atheist who denies moral nihilism lives in a delusion.

You have no purpose to your existence, no foundations for your moral claims, no reason to get up out of bed every morning and live a life as if you have some magical purpose. You have no significance at all to the universe, so by all means start acting like it

Your views on reality are incredibly asinine and hopefully one day you will try to be skeptical of a world without a necessary consciousness being the creator and sustainer of physical existence.

Try using at least one quarter of the skepticism you have of Theism and apply it to atheism and I will guarantee that you will be a Theist.

[Gary]

Gary

Newsflash

You don't determine who is a sick tyrant and who isn't. All your emotions boil down to is an opinion.

I don't think you have a clue on what annihilationism or inclusivism is, because if you did you would realize that this response of yours makes no sense.

You have to come to terms with the fact that you are ignorant of positions available to Christians. Stop assuming you know more than you do.

Please list the major Christian denominations (non-universalists) who believe that "sinners" will not be punished in some fashion for some period of time. I am aware that some denominations believe that all sinners will be annihilated when eventually cast into the Lake of Fire, but what is happening to them right at this moment is the question? Are they suffering? If so, they are being tortured and that makes your god a brutal tyrant.

Maybe you, George Bush, and Alberto Gonzalez don't believe in the traditional definition of torture, but most of the world finds your sadistic and twisted redefining of this term immoral and repugnant.

[Cornell]

Please list the major Christian denominations (non-universalists) who do believe that "sinners" will not be punished in some fashion for some period of time. I am aware that some denominations believe that all sinners will be annihilated when eventually cast into the Lake of Fire, but what is happening to them right at this moment is the question? Are they suffering? If so, they are being tortured and that makes your god a brutal tyrant.

Maybe you, George Bush, and Alberto Gonzalez don't believe in the traditional definition of torture, but most of the world finds your redefining of this term immoral and repugnant.

This is an ad populum argument, that doesn't work, because no one can round up every Christian in the world and find out exactly what they believe.

Denominations don't work because Christians can hold to a denomination and still disagree with a few tenents.

Do you know what inclusivism means?

[Gary]

This is an ad populum argument, that doesn't work, because no one can round up every Christian in the world and find out exactly what they believe.

Denominations don't work because Christians can hold to a denomination and still disagree with a few tenents.

Do you know what inclusivism means?

If you want to believe that you are more right than everyone else but that others may have some of the truth, great! That is an improvement, as long as you do not believe and teach that those who are not as right as you are going to suffer or be punished for not being as right as you.

Yes, there are so many different Christian positions on practically every doctrine, and that is why there is estimated to be over 30,000 different Christian denominations, sects, and cults in the world, each one believing that God has revealed the REAL truths only to them. Dear Christians: Open your eyes, for Pete's sake. It is obvious to everyone but you that your belief system does not originate from an all-knowing, perfect God, but from imperfect, superstitious humans.

[Cornell]

If you want to believe that you are more right than everyone else but that others may have some of the truth, great! That is an improvement, as long as you do not believe and teach that those who are not as right as you are going to suffer or be punished for not being as right as you.

Yes, there are so many different Christian positions on practically every doctrine, and that is why there is estimated to be over 30,000 different Christian denominations, sects, and cults in the world, each one believing that God has revealed the REAL truths only to them. Dear Christians: Open your eyes, for Pete's sake. It is obvious to everyone but you that your belief system does not originate from an all-knowing, perfect God, but from imperfect, superstitious humans.

So who died and made you the dictator of my life to which you think you can tell me what I should and shouldn't do? I can teach what I think is right just as you can, so you can stop it with this fascist mentality of yours.

And why is it that on the one hand you complain about Christians who believe in a literal Hell and the next minute you are upset when Christians have a different stance than each other and come up with their own opinions?

Is it possible for you to make up your mind?

There are many denominations because Christians are free thinkers, and CHALLENGE their superiors, that's not my problem.

God wants people to think and challenge each other, that's not my problem

So what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and I can easily turn your argument against you and use it to my advantage.