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Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary
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Notice that no one has answered my question as to why a perfect god needed to create something after billions and billions of years of perfect existence. I believe that this one question brings down the entire conservative Christian belief system. Here's why:
Why would a perfect, all-knowing God, in need of nothing, one day decide to create a universe and little beings in "his image"? Options:
1. God did it for his own benefit, but why?
Was he bored? Was he lonely? Did he have nothing better to do that day so decided he wanted the equivalent of a miniature train and train track to keep him entertained??
2. He did it for our benefit.
Are you kidding?? He knew that Adam and Eve would choose to sin thereby forcing all humankind to undergo MASSIVE suffering for thousands and thousands of years...but he created them anyway. He also knew that only the few would follow the "narrow road" and obey him, the majority being cast into everlasting darkness in a place prepared for the devil and his angels.
There is no logical way to claim that God created mankind for our benefit. Humankind would have been much better off to have been created as robots or not created at all.
3. "God works in mysterious ways. We simply have to trust him."
This is fundamentalist nonsense. What this statement says is this: Stop using your brain and simply obey by blind obedience.
The lack of a good explanation for a perfect God creating a universe and little minnie-hims is basis enough to reject this ancient tall tale.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostNotice that no one has answered my question as to why a perfect god needed to create something after billions and billions of years of perfect existence.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYour question doesn't make sense. There is no such thing as 'time' before the creation.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostOk, let's keep it simple: your god allegedly existed prior to his act of creating the universe. Why would your perfect god need to create anything, including "time", if he was perfect and self-sufficient?Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostHe wanted to?
But why? Was he bored? Was he lonely?
If your answer is, "He just wanted to", then I must ask: How can you consider your god to be just, good, and merciful if he created a universe that he knew in advance would endure horrific misery and suffering for thousands of years...but he created it anyway.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostOk, good. So the Christian god wanted to create.
But why? Was he bored? Was he lonely?
If your answer is, "He just wanted to", then I must ask: How can you consider your god to be just, good, and merciful if he created a universe that he knew in advance would endure horrific misery and suffering for thousands of years...but he created it anyway.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostIt has a happy ending? Why does a writer write a book? Not just for money, someone could write a story just because they want to create a story. And a good story needs conflict. Suffering builds character.
Tell that to the millions of little children who have been tortured, raped, and brutally murdered during the thousands of years of human existence. Try again.
And what happy ending? Unless you are a universalist, the majority of human beings will be in Hell. Only a "few" are on the narrow road to Heaven, at least according to your Holy Book.
The truth is that if your god exists, he is a brutal monster. A brutal, sadistic monster who everyday, for the last tens of thousands of years, has sat contently on his throne on the edge of outer space, watching little children being brutalized by the most unimaginable horrors...but he allows it to continue, day after day, year after year, millennia after millennia.
If your god exists, call him Lord and Master, but be honest and stop calling him "good", "loving", "just", and "merciful". I will call him what he is: a monster.
Come on Nick and Stein: Cat got your tongue?Last edited by Gary; 08-27-2015, 02:34 PM.
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Originally posted by Gary View PostSuffering builds character??
Tell that to the millions of little children who have been tortured, raped, and brutally murdered during the existence of human beings. Try again.
And what happy ending? Unless you are a universalist, the majority of human beings will be in Hell. Only a "few" are on the narrow path to Heaven, at least according to your Holy Book.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Gary View PostOk, good. So the Christian god wanted to create.
But why? Was he bored? Was he lonely?
If your answer is, "He just wanted to", then I must ask: How can you consider your god to be just, good, and merciful if he created a universe that he knew in advance would endure horrific misery and suffering for thousands of years...but he created it anyway.
You have one of the worst outlooks on life I've ever seen.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Gary View PostSuffering builds character??
Tell that to the millions of little children who have been tortured, raped, and brutally murdered during the thousands of years of human existence. Try again.
And what happy ending? Unless you are a universalist, the majority of human beings will be in Hell. Only a "few" are on the narrow road to Heaven, at least according to your Holy Book.
The truth is that if your god exists, he is a brutal monster. A brutal, sadistic monster who everyday, for the last tens of thousands of years, has sat contently on his throne on the edge of outer space, watching little children being brutalized by the most unimaginable horrors...but he allows it to continue, day after day, year after year, millennia after millennia.
If your god exists, call him Lord and Master, but be honest and stop calling him "good", "loving", "just", and "merciful". I will call him what he is: a monster.
Come on Nick and Stein: Cat got your tongue?
Universalism isn't the only view that thinks a majority of people will not be in Hell
Please educate yourself on annihilationism and inclusivism.
You really don't know as much as you think you know.
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Originally posted by Cornell View PostYou are so ignorant that it is actually funny watching you stumble.
Universalism isn't the only view that thinks a majority of people will be in Hell
Please educate yourself on annihilationism and inclusivism.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Suffering does build character and it makes moral progression possible.
We live in a world where humanity needs to avoid cases where people are tortured and to get to this point we have to WORK for it.
Atheists like Gary want to take the lazy way out and expect a God that just gives us everything from the start even though we didn't earn it.Last edited by Cornell; 08-27-2015, 03:11 PM.
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostActually, the historically high infant mortality rate means that most humans ever conceived will be in heaven due to dying young and incapable of shame. Christianthinktank.com has several good articles discussing your concerns. But since you won't read them, I won't bother linking to them. It's a waste of time. Anyone who wishes to find the articles need only to seek them out on that website.
That still means that the majority of children who have reached the mythical Age of Accountability will be in Hell. You have a seared conscience if you refuse to condemn your god's sick behavior. Imagine how you would feel about a man who stood by and watched while a nine year old child is brutally tortured, raped, and murdered...and doesn't lift a finger. We would shame this man to no end and if we could, put him in jail for being an accomplice to this horrific crime. Your god is an accomplice to hundreds if not thousands of horrific crimes against children every day.
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