Originally posted by Christianbookworm
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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines
Theists only.
This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.
The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.
The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."
The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.
The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.
The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."
The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.
Forum Rules: Here
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Everyone gets Saved, and there is no Hell:
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Originally posted by Bisto View PostHe has said he believes nonbelievers will repent at or around Final Judgement, if I understood him correctly. Under that model, I guess he'd say they would "call on him" then."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostOh I know...this isn't my first universalist rodeo...and like Gerbz, I'm sympathetic to the view, but it doesn't stand up to scriptural scrutiny. It simply doesn't explain why Paul makes the statement I quoted. There's no need for Paul and all the other Apostles (except John of course) to die for the Gospel if there's no reason to preach the Gospel. Rather silly to decide to die for the Gospel when it's utterly pointless wouldn't you say?We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'- 2 Corinthians 5:20.
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Originally posted by James Cusick View PostThat one has no ammo for a realistic discussion for this topic.The last Christian left at tweb
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostRomans 10 pretty much blows this premise out of the water. The Apostle Paul felt it VERY important to "convince others"...
It clearly says that the ones who will be saved are those "...who call on him."
It needs to be further pointed out,
it explicitly says "How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed?" And, "For with the heart one believes and is justified, . . ." One is saved by God's grace provided by the finished work of Christ "through faith" in Him (Ephesians 2:8; John 5:24).. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post<snip> . . . Keep in mind that I believe hell is a state of shame and not a place of fire and torture.
Moses wrote what God said: ". . . For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, . . ." -- Deuteronomy 32:22.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBut if God himself has to end up "burning away their sins", then the whole "raising his children" idea is silly.
As to the "Lake of Fire" the scriptures say that the fire purifies and cleans the person.
See it here = If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KJV, 1 Corinthians 3:15
The sinful works shall be burned - while the person is SAVED.
When raising children and the child gets low grades in school or they can not stand up against the bullies - then the parents raise the child through their difficulties.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostLet's go with that analogy. We know that not everyone on the Titanic was saved, only those that got into the lifeboats. Now suppose you went around telling everyone not to worry that they were all safe! No need to run to the lifeboats, because the Titanic was not sinking after all and they would not be drowned.
That is what you are doing. You are telling everyone that they don't have to do anything and they are safe from hell. Go on murdering, killing, stealing. It doesn't matter because they are saved regardless! No need to repent! No need to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior! Just go about their lives and they will end up in heaven. If people believe you and you are wrong, you are basically condemning people to hell who might have been saved, and definitely making sure that some people who might have accepted Jesus and been better people, instead keep on being selfish and evil.
Nice work!
The spiritual salvation is already paid in full by Jesus so every person throughout humanity gets saved after death.
But the physical salvation here on earth means being saved from such things as from addiction, saved from ignorance and despair, saved from violence and cruelty, saved from suffering and disease and crime, etc etc etc.
If one accepts the fact that they are saved after death - then if they start sinning by murder or stealing or lies then they will "reap as ye sow" by having a troubled conscience and by the Police who will prosecute any criminal.
There is justice in this world and in this life time, and later after death comes mercy and forgiveness.
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostHere we have some agreement.
The message of Jesus Christ is one of hope and forgiveness and that is the message that should be preached. Yes, it is true that many preachers slander God by attributing to Him actions/motivations which are unjust - the gospel isn't about fear but to hear some preachers one would think otherwise.
Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostThat said, it is sin that brings death and separation from God (and not God Himself) so to the extent that you're tossing out the consequences of sin in an effort to defend God would be the extent to which I'd consider you wrong.
The consequences of sin and death are real - the error is attributing them to God - the solution isn't pretending they don't exist.
That is because there are two (2) kinds of salvation = a physical salvation in this life, and the spiritual salvation after death.
The spiritual salvation is already paid in full by Jesus so every person throughout humanity gets saved after death.
But the physical salvation here on earth means being saved from such things as from addiction, saved from ignorance and despair, saved from violence and cruelty, saved from suffering and disease and crime, etc etc etc.
If one accepts the fact that they are saved after death - then if they start sinning by murder or stealing or lies then they will "reap as ye sow" by having a troubled conscience and by the Police who will prosecute any criminal.
There is justice in this world and in this life time, and later after death comes mercy and forgiveness.
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostRomans 10 pretty much blows this premise out of the water. The Apostle Paul felt it VERY important to "convince others"...
...
It clearly says that the ones who will be saved are those "...who call on him."
That is because there are two (2) kinds of salvation = a physical salvation in this life, and the spiritual salvation after death.
The spiritual salvation is already paid in full by Jesus so every person throughout humanity gets saved after death.
But the physical salvation here on earth means being saved from such things as from addiction, saved from ignorance and despair, saved from violence and cruelty, saved from suffering and disease and crime, etc etc etc.
If one accepts the fact that they are saved after death - then if they start sinning by murder or stealing or lies then they will "reap as ye sow" by having a troubled conscience and by the Police who will prosecute any criminal.
There is justice in this world and in this life time, and later after death comes mercy and forgiveness.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostThe word Hades was also used as a term for the underworld or afterlife.
As does the English word "hell" meant the grave for the dead.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostJesus most certainly did teach about the afterlife, and about rewards and punishments.
In this world and in this life we suffer the sins, but after death comes salvation to all.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostIn 2 Peter Tartarus is specifically mentioned(although often translated as "hell"), which was the Greek version of what people today call Hell. Elysium was their version of "Heaven". Sharing certain concepts doesn't require sharing theology. Just like Muslims have their version of Heaven where good Muslim men get at least 72 virgins. As well as their own version of hell, which is extremely similar to Dante's Inferno.
Even the fallen Angels and Demons get saved through Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe apostle Paul warns, ". . . For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. . ." -- 2 Corinthians 5:10-11.
But every human being will have Jesus standing before them as our advocate declaring our sins forgiven and our punishment paid in full.
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostJim,
This is a theist only area. If you do not have permission to post here from the OP and the mod staff, you will have to cease posting.
This is for the unorthodox.
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Originally posted by James Cusick View PostIt might be childish but I do not see it as silly, and we people who do the sins are the ones who are being childish.
As to the "Lake of Fire" the scriptures say that the fire purifies and cleans the person.
See it here = If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KJV, 1 Corinthians 3:15
The sinful works shall be burned - while the person is SAVED.
When raising children and the child gets low grades in school or they can not stand up against the bullies - then the parents raise the child through their difficulties.
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Originally posted by James Cusick View PostThat is because there are two (2) kinds of salvation = a physical salvation in this life, and the spiritual salvation after death.
The spiritual salvation is already paid in full by Jesus so every person throughout humanity gets saved after death.
But the physical salvation here on earth means being saved from such things as from addiction, saved from ignorance and despair, saved from violence and cruelty, saved from suffering and disease and crime, etc etc etc.
If one accepts the fact that they are saved after death - then if they start sinning by murder or stealing or lies then they will "reap as ye sow" by having a troubled conscience and by the Police who will prosecute any criminal.
There is justice in this world and in this life time, and later after death comes mercy and forgiveness.
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Originally posted by James Cusick View PostIf I have any say in it - since I started this thread topic - then I say that person is welcome here as is anyone interested.
This is for the unorthodox.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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