Originally posted by DesertBerean
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI think they pretty much expect to dominate the conversation, and when "the other guy" leads in the prayer, it sets the stage a little differently than they expect.
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I know I've said this before, but not sure if it was pre-crash....
Once, we had some Mormons come visit, and I had some time to talk, so I invited them in. They were "conducting a religious survey".
They began with some very generic "do you believe" questions, then got to "Do you believe God spoke through Prophets in the Bible".
I could see where this was going, and the next question was "Do you believe God can still speak through Prophets today?"
At that point, I said, "lemme guess, you're going to propose that Joseph Smith is such a prophet". They looked at each other like "how did he know THAT?"
I said, "OK, let's cut to the chase -- you know what John 3:16 says, yes?" I was about to quote it when I noticed they were looking at each other like, "hadn't heard THAT one!" And I stopped.... "you DO know what John 3:16 says, yes?" I asked again, and they both admitted, "not off the top of my head".
So I asked them why they claim that the Bible and the Book of Mormon are equal in authority when they know far more about the BoM than they do the Bible. They told me that was an interesting question, and asked if they could come back with some Elders.
Never heard from them again at that address.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI know I've said this before, but not sure if it was pre-crash....
Once, we had some Mormons come visit, and I had some time to talk, so I invited them in. They were "conducting a religious survey".
They began with some very generic "do you believe" questions, then got to "Do you believe God spoke through Prophets in the Bible".
I could see where this was going, and the next question was "Do you believe God can still speak through Prophets today?"
At that point, I said, "lemme guess, you're going to propose that Joseph Smith is such a prophet". They looked at each other like "how did he know THAT?"
I said, "OK, let's cut to the chase -- you know what John 3:16 says, yes?" I was about to quote it when I noticed they were looking at each other like, "hadn't heard THAT one!" And I stopped.... "you DO know what John 3:16 says, yes?" I asked again, and they both admitted, "not off the top of my head".
So I asked them why they claim that the Bible and the Book of Mormon are equal in authority when they know far more about the BoM than they do the Bible. They told me that was an interesting question, and asked if they could come back with some Elders.
Never heard from them again at that address.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostY'know, I'm not sure many Christians raised in a Catholic/Orthodox background would know that verse off the top of their head, either, because there's less focus on specific verses of scripture. It's part of the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (which is the usual Orthodox liturgy), though it's often said privately by the priest while the choir is singing something else.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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I was sent to a Presbyterian chuch for Sunday School but rarely got to sit in service. But we had John 3:16 drilled into us if nothing else. Attended several Catholic services with a friend ... I recall they always read from the Bible. The only time I ever heard rosary was at a few funerals held in our local Catholic church. In my Assembly of God church we are all about Scriptures.
Unfortunately...and this I believe is key...many, MANY U.S. Protestant churches stopped having Sunday School a couple decades ago. Can't speak to other organizations.. but when I see that in the present generation, only 4 percent of professing Christians know their Bibles, I know we failed big time.Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostI was sent to a Presbyterian chuch for Sunday School but rarely got to sit in service. But we had John 3:16 drilled into us if nothing else. Attended several Catholic services with a friend ... I recall they always read from the Bible. The only time I ever heard rosary was at a few funerals held in our local Catholic church. In my Assembly of God church we are all about Scriptures.
Unfortunately...and this I believe is key...many, MANY U.S. Protestant churches stopped having Sunday School a couple decades ago. Can't speak to other organizations.. but when I see that in the present generation, only 4 percent of professing Christians know their Bibles, I know we failed big time.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo where were you going to go with John 3:16 with the mormons?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostI was sent to a Presbyterian chuch for Sunday School but rarely got to sit in service. But we had John 3:16 drilled into us if nothing else. Attended several Catholic services with a friend ... I recall they always read from the Bible. The only time I ever heard rosary was at a few funerals held in our local Catholic church. In my Assembly of God church we are all about Scriptures.
Unfortunately...and this I believe is key...many, MANY U.S. Protestant churches stopped having Sunday School a couple decades ago. Can't speak to other organizations.. but when I see that in the present generation, only 4 percent of professing Christians know their Bibles, I know we failed big time.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post4% seems a bit high to me. Do you have a citation available perchance?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post4% seems a bit high to me. Do you have a citation available perchance?
But to emphasize CP's point, here's an article about our illiteracy:
https://albertmohler.com/2016/01/20/...our-problem-4/Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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All you need to do is look at the millions of people who sit in churches where the bible isn't even opened and the "sermon" is nothing more than feel-good ear-tickling.
If these folk were into the word then these churches would be failing instead of growing.
It's Laodicea, folks.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWell, you may have a point. While ANY CHILD raised in a Baptist home could be expected to quote John 3:16, in my teenage rebellion, I attended a Catholic Youth Organization retreat where I was astounded that they didn't seem to know any scripture at all. But then, they weren't "missionaries" sent out to win converts.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThe Orthodox method of conversion is less "see verse x, y, and z...." than "come and see."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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