Is Kolob a star or a planet?

[Cow Poke]

Thank you. I am once again reminded of the book by the late Walter Martin entitled: "The Maze of Mormonism".

I tell my wife Mormonism is the most convoluted belief system that I have ever encountered.

I think, honestly, Smith just made it up as he went along, and it got so convoluted that he, and subsequent "prophets" forgot they already said something OPPOSITE of their new "revelation". But that's OK, cause Mormons teach a very liberal version of "continuing revelation" which allows subsequent "prophets" to say, in effect, "ooooops, that's not what we meant, NOW we mean......"

[seven7up]

I've noticed you're on this "double standard" kick lately. And, no, it doesn't bother me in the least that you PRETEND to "see right through me".

This is a thread, which is essentially mocking the concept that God could dwell on a world. Whether that world is called Earth or Kolob or Frankenberry doesn't matter.

Most of the Christian world believes that Jesus Christ, who has the "fulness of Deity in bodily form", will reign on a planet.

If you cannot see the double standard here, then there is not much hope for you.

-7up

[Christianbookworm]

No. It the idea that a man could become God. And life on other planets looking just like us... does the year 1938 ring a bell? Life on other planets just makes us think about sci-fi stories! God becoming a human, no biggie.

[Cow Poke]

This is a thread, which is essentially mocking the concept that God could dwell on a world. Whether that world is called Earth or Kolob or Frankenberry doesn't matter.

Most of the Christian world believes that Jesus Christ, who has the "fulness of Deity in bodily form", will reign on a planet.

If you cannot see the double standard here, then there is not much hope for you.

-7up

No, 7

It's about your nutty "prophets" who got carried away with saying stupid stuff like there are people living on the moon dressed as Quakers, people living on the SUN, man can become GOD, God and His wife are endlessly producing "spirit children", eternal sealings that are not eternal at all, etc.

If you can't see how goofy that is, it's on you.

[seven7up]

how can God be omnipresent if he is limited to a flesh and bone body?

Don't bother to notice that I already answered that question ... on this very thread.

"God is present with all his creations through his influence, through his government, spirit and power, ..."

And when they say he knows "all things" you have to ask yourself what they mean by that. Does that include the future, for example? 7-up has been arguing against Omniscience in his thread on Ex Nihilo.

My argument on the other thread does not discount God's foreknowledge. You make the same mistake Bill did. Trust me, this is not similar to other conversations that you have had in the past. You are going to have to grapple with all those assumptions that you hold.

Which brings us to Omnipotent. The LDS God cannot created matter, he can only re-arrange it. So how is that omnipotent?

I don't even have to address whether or not God can or cannot. The question is whether or not God did or didn't or whether or not it is necessary. I argue that no true interpersonal relationships exist within the Ex Nihilo creation theory. If that is true, and it is not necessary then God would have no reason to create Ex Nihilo, even if He could.

Thank you. I am once again reminded of the book by the late Walter Martin entitled: "The Maze of Mormonism".
I tell my wife Mormonism is the most convoluted belief system that I have ever encountered.

Martin's caricature of Mormonism does not correspond to Mormon beliefs. He attacks an imaginary system instead of the real thing. It is like the example we saw recently about Christians performing "ritualistic cannibalism" on a weekly basis and call it the Lord's Supper.

Tell me foudroyant, Do you believe that God had his own son killed in order to pay Himself off?

Those are the kinds of tactics that Walter Martin used. Similar tactics are used by anti-mormons even today.

-7up

[seven7up]

Ah, the "Christians" in quotation marks!

That's right. Such an honored title does not apply to you and your ilk, who attempt to bash the faith of others, and unwittingly undermine the pillars of your own faith in the process.

The Mormon idea of "God" is pretty much just a man with superpowers.

Yeah. And they say that this "man" could "walk on water" , could "ascend into heaven" , could "appear suddenly in a closed room" , could "calm a violent storm by the power of his word" , etc. Stupid mormons right?

One huge difference between you all and LDS is this. We believe that Colossians 2:9 is true. And you do not.

No, 7

It's about your nutty "prophets" who got carried away with saying stupid stuff...

Is it stupid or "nutty" to think that ancient people thought that "evil spirits" are what made people sick? Do you suspect that Moses or Noah knew about microorganisms and their role in pathology?

Your flawed concept of who and what a prophet was constantly clouds your judgement.

Life on other planets just makes us think about sci-fi stories!

How geocentrist of you. To think that this entire Universe was created only to serve our small little planet. Everything revolves around us right? Don't you even consider the possibility that this is a baseless assumption?


-7up

[Christianbookworm]

Why haven't we found any of these inhabited worlds? Shouldn't they have space travel capabilities? Shouldn't the universe be packed with civilizations? Shouldn't astronomers find evidence of alien life if it is so prevalent?

[seven7up]

Why haven't we found any of these inhabited worlds? Shouldn't they have space travel capabilities? Shouldn't the universe be packed with civilizations? Shouldn't astronomers find evidence of alien life if it is so prevalent?

You are right.

If we haven't seen it, then it doesn't exist.

Good point.

-7up

[Christianbookworm]

I just think that mormon thought should have some kind of evidence. What about the fact that native Americans do not share a common ancestor with the Jews?
http://www.equip.org/articles/dna-sc...s-lds-history/

equip.org: ""

This article first appeared in the News Watch column of the Christian Research Journal, volume 27, number 1 (2004). For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org

Closer to home, eh?http://www.godandscience.org/cults/dna.html
Though that doesn't have to do with this topic. If something is supposed to be occurring right now in this universe, there should be some kind of evidence. The Christian God is completely outside the space-time continuum. I'm in agreement with God in the flesh/becoming man, not the other way around. And y'all don't still think it has a revolution of a 1000 years do you?

[Christianbookworm]

Or I'll keep implying that the inhabitants on some of those planets are the same types from fiction. Still don't get what species I'm referring to? They only have superpowers in certain conditions....

[Christianbookworm]

Let's do some math, assuming that 1,000 people on each god's planet a good enough to become gods themselves.
gen 0: 1 god
gen 1: 1001 gods
gen 2: 1^6 more gods
gen 3: 1^9 more gods
gen 4: 1^12
5: 1^15
6:1^18
so, y= 1000^x, where y=number of new gods and x= generation number, or multiply gen number by three to get the scientific notation exponent.
So, after 100 generations of man becoming god, you have 10^300 gods. There are 10^24 stars, so we would only need 8 generations to use up the stars. Not all of them have planets, and not all the planets are inhabitable. What happens when you reach the 9th generation?
Maybe only 2 become new gods? You still have exponential growth to deal with. But you could have 80 generations to get to 1.2x10^24. Or only one person gets to become god. Then you could have as many generations as you want. Say a generation lasts 5 billion years(estimation of solar system age according to sceintists),
If you have 1000 new gods, that would be about 40 billion years.
2 gods would be 400 billion years
1 at a time could be 2^30 years, still not eternity. Unless you want to posit an infinite number of stars, with an infinity of beings.

[seven7up]

Let's do some math, ... Unless you want to posit an infinite number of stars, with an infinity of beings.

How about an infinite number of Universes (ie Multiverse)?

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Here is an interesting excerpt from an interview with Joseph Silk, Head of Astrophysics, Department of Physics, University of Oxford

Joseph Silk:

"We do not know whether the Universe is finite or not. To give you an example, imagine the geometry of the Universe in two dimensions as a plane. It is flat, and a plane is normally infinite. ... (Flat is just a two-dimensional analogy. What is meant is that the Universe is 'Euclidean', meaning that parallel lines always run parallel)... But you can take a sheet of paper [an 'infinite' sheet of paper] and you can roll it up and make a cylinder, and you can roll the cylinder again and make a torus [like the shape of a doughnut]. The surface of the torus is also spatially flat, but it is finite. So you have two possibilities for a flat Universe: one infinite, like a plane, and one finite, like a torus, which is also flat. ... Even if with our Cosmic Microwave Background data we can prove that the Universe is flat, we still won't know whether it's finite or infinite.

Question: Then how are we going to know whether the Universe is infinite?
Joseph Silk:

"With great difficulty! We may never know it. ..."
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5 Reasons We May Live in a Multiverse - ....http://www.space.com/18811-multiple-...-theories.html
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Evidence of the existence of 'multiverse' revealed for the first time by cosmic map: "The first 'hard evidence' that other universes exist has been found by scientists. Cosmologists studying a map of the universe from data gathered by the Planck spacecraft have concluded that it shows anomalies that can only have been caused by the gravitational pull of other universes. ..."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...osmic-map.html

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http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1261602.ece


-7up

[seven7up]

I just think that mormon thought should have some kind of evidence. What about the fact that native Americans do not share a common ancestor with the Jews?
http://www.equip.org/articles/dna-sc...s-lds-history/

Quite off topic. But look ... I can give links also:

https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-m...udies?lang=eng

My link can beat up your link.

-7up

[Cow Poke]

That's right. Such an honored title does not apply to you and your ilk, who attempt to bash the faith of others, and unwittingly undermine the pillars of your own faith in the process.

Ah, so because I "try the spirits" and find them false with regards to Mormonism, then I am not a Christian, and I am of "that ilk". Fortunately, you don't get to decide who is a Christian and who is not, and it's awfully arrogant for you to take on that position.

Smith was a false prophet, and his followers are deceived.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah. And they say that this "man" could "walk on water" , could "ascend into heaven" , could "appear suddenly in a closed room" , could "calm a violent storm by the power of his word" , etc. Stupid mormons right?

You really need to be more careful with your quotes. I think, in your rush to judgement, you have attributed a quote to me which I did not say. Your quote of me saying "The Mormon idea of "God" is pretty much just a man with superpowers." is something I did not say. When you click on the hyperlink which attributes that quote to me, it goes to something I said that is totally different.

An apology is in order.