The New Testament is Anti-Semitic

[shunyadragon]

No Robrecht. To reject the Revelation of God and face the consequences of the conflicts and violence between and among religions is a consequence of this rejection. This is true for Christianity and Islam throughout history. When you reject the Guidance and Blessing of a Revelation and the grace, spiritual unity and harmony of which that Revelation offers. There is nothing in the Baha'i Revelation that advocates hatred, and intolerance of Jews, as in the NT, and nothing in the history of the Baha'i Faith that advocates any such violence against the followers of other religions.

It is being self accursed to reject the Revelation of God, and suffer the consequences.

[shunyadragon]

If Abdul'baha is quoted in something like 'Pilgrims Notes,' then it is not scripture nor authoritative. If it is from an authorized publication as a authored by Abdul'baha then I consider it authoritative.

[robrecht]

No Robrecht. To reject the Revelation of God and face the consequences of the conflicts and violence between and among religions is a consequence of this rejection. This is true for Christianity and Islam throughout history. When you reject the Guidance and Blessing of a Revelation and the grace, spiritual unity and harmony of which that Revelation offers. There is nothing in the Baha'i Revelation that advocates hatred, and intolerance of Jews, as in the NT, and nothing in the history of the Baha'i Faith that advocates any such violence against the followers of other religions.

But you believe that the Jews were cursed, yes or no?

[shunyadragon]

But you believe that the Jews were cursed, yes or no?

My previous post was clear and specific. To reject the Revelation of God is to be self accursed of ones own free will.

[robrecht]

My previous post was clear and specific. To reject the Revelation of God is to be self accursed of ones own free will.

I see you have added the 'self accursed' part to your earlier post. Thanks for clarifying. I do not think 'the Jews' would agree with your contention that they are self accursed.

[shunyadragon]

I see you have added the 'self accursed' part to your earlier post. Thanks for clarifying. I do not think 'the Jews' would agree with your contention that they are self accursed.

Actually no one would admit to this when they reject the Revelation of God. There is an important point here as to what anti-Jewish, anti-semitism, or specifically anti anything means in this context. It means to be aggressively hate, condemn, mock and literally attack which ever group you oppose. The problem with the NT is anti-Jewish, and not the broader vaguer anti-semitism.

[Adrift]

By the way, Shuny, you never bothered to document your claim that Sen 'claimed some kind of authority comparable or competitive with the infallible International House of Justice'. Would you like to retract that perhaps?

I never made such a claim of Sen.

A quick Google search shows that, actually, you did!

You can find it in a post you made back on 6/29 of this year here:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ll=1#post72713

Referring to Sen, you wrote, "The above is an example of the problem of one 'claiming to be an authority' over the authority of the elected Universal House of Justice as the interpreter of Baha'i scripture."

When pushed on this by robrecht, who asked you "Did he (Sen) really claim any kind of authority comparable or competitive with the infallible International House of Justice?", you answered, "It is my understanding that he did."
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ll=1#post72766

In the very next post you were asked if you had a reference to support your understanding, but you never replied.

[robrecht]

I never made such a claim of Sen.

Let me refresh your memory. When I first brought up the case of Sen McGlinn here

...The above is an example of the problem of one 'claiming to be an authority' over the authority of the elected Universal House of Justice as the interpreter of Baha'i scripture.

To become a Baha'i, is to embrace the core theistic belief of the Baha'i Faith and the authority of the scriptures and the Universal House of Justice. Personal opinions beyond this is wide open, and not an issue unless one claims an unwarranted claim of authority as an individual.

It is my understanding that he did.

[robrecht]

Actually no one would admit to this when they reject the Revelation of God. There is an important point here as to what anti-Jewish, anti-semitism, or specifically anti anything means in this context. It means to be aggressively hate, condemn, mock and literally attack which ever group you oppose. The problem with the NT is anti-Jewish, and not the broader vaguer anti-semitism.

Well, since you admit they would not admit to being self accursed, perhaps you should not use the modifier 'self'; perhaps you should just stick to the words of Baha'i sacred scripture and just say "accursed".

[shunyadragon]

Let me refresh your memory. When I first brought up the case of Sen McGlinn here

I was unable to find a reference that provided sufficient clarification of the case. The best I could do was state it was my 'understanding,' and I still have not been able to find a source with a specific clarification. As with all dialogues I am perfectly willing to be corrected based on reliable sources, and continue the dialogue.

[shunyadragon]

Well, since you admit they would not admit to being self accursed, perhaps you should not use the modifier 'self'; perhaps you should just stick to the words of Baha'i sacred scripture and just say "accursed".

Well, I if you read the whole reference your citation came from. The matter of being accursed referred specifically the decision of those to reject the Revelation, and I have to problem with this being a decision on the part of the believers, and that my friend is self inflicted decision.

[robrecht]

Well, I if you read the whole reference your citation came from. The matter of being accursed referred specifically the decision of those to reject the Revelation, and I have to problem with this being a decision on the part of the believers, and that my friend is self inflicted decision.

Yes, I saw that. What is the underlying Arabic (Farsi?) term and form used here for 'accursed'?

[shunyadragon]

How about this, is it a valid Baha'i source?

And for that which they have said, they were accursed. ..."

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-13.html.utf8?

Or this?

" ... What harm could come from a statement by the Jews that Jesus was also a Manifestation of the Word of God? Have the Christians suffered for their belief in Moses? Have they experienced any loss of religious enthusiasm or witnessed any defeat in their religious belief by declaring that Moses was a Prophet of God, that the Torah was a Book of God and that all the prophets of Israel were prophets of God? It is evident that no loss comes from this. And now it is time for the Jews to declare that Christ was the Word of God, and then this enmity between two great religions will pass away. For two thousand years this enmity and religious prejudice have continued. Blood has been shed, ordeals have been suffered. These few words will remedy the difficulty and unite two great religions. What harm could follow this: that just as the Christians glorify and praise the name of Moses, likewise the Jews should commemorate the name of Christ, declare Him to be the Word of God and consider Him as one of the chosen Messengers of God?"

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/P...120.html.utf8?

Or this?

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/o/BN...170.html.utf8?

Or this?

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/FWU/fwu-22.html.utf8?

Or this?

This was realized when peoples of all religions, nationalities and dispositions became united in their beliefs and followed Christ in humility, associating in love and brotherhood under the shadow of his divine protection. The Jews, being blind to this and holding to their bigoted imitations, were insolent and arrogant toward His Holiness and crucified him. Had they investigated the reality of Christ they would have beheld his beauty and truth.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/FWU/fwu-22.html.utf8?

Or this perhaps?

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/P...136.html.utf8?

One clarification concerning these sources. The first one by Baha'u'llah is Revelation. The third one citation from the book by J E Esslemont is from a book he wrote and he acurately cites Abdul'baha. Is is considered a good accurate reference . The other references are accurately recorded talks by Abdul'baha from books published by the Baha'i Faith and I consider authoritative. As I said before they are good references

[shunyadragon]

Yes, I saw that. What is the underlying Arabic (Farsi?) term and form used here for 'accursed'?

I do not know the languages, but I will assume the translation is accurate. Do you understand Arabic or Farsi sufficient to understand the translation?

[paramount]

You would be amazed at the amount of negative language from Baha'u'llah in Baha'i writings. There are instances where he calls those who deny him and his enemies pigs, dogs, and donkeys amongst a range of other titles.