Originally posted by robrecht
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Judaism Guidelines
Theists only.
Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
Shalom!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
The New Testament is Anti-Semitic
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostWould it be true to say, though, that at that point, Christianity was not considered truly distinct from Judaism? Would we not have seen similar polemical dialogue between the Sadducees and the Pharisees if we had access to their writings?אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostUntrue, I have here and elsewhere many times condemned the evils of anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism that have been promoted by many Christians throughout history. I have never avoided this topic. I did add the aspect of trying to get you to be self-critical of the Baha'i faith, as are many Christians regarding their faith. You do not seem to be able to do this.
Of course, much of the New Testament witnesses to the polemical and deteriorating relations between various early Christian communities and factions and other Jewish groups.
These were common conflicts as occur throughout history, but the ~1600+ years of large scale brutal persecution, ethnic cleansing, venomous hatred, and denigration cannot be compared to what you describe above in numbers, magnitude in history.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt does not address the question: Is there a scriptural basis for anti-Jewishness in the history of Christianity or not?
But no, the Koine Greek doesn't support Anti-Jewishness, but rather Anti-Judahism against the tribe of Judah. The tribe of Judah were not supposed get excessive pay for there law enforcement duties. And there are many instances of the vocative which in Greek is neither singular nor plural but mass nounege. There is nothing condemning Israel in the New Testament, and even Acts is misrendered to condemn. Acts has several words to alarm the average Israelite about the Elders. Communist countries aren't full of wicked people, rather it is the free countries which have the most decadence; and the US had decadence even before, during and after the revolution.
EDIT: The Jews don't call themselves Israelites anymore; naming themselves after Judah. Yet there aren't Levites but rather Jews who become Rabbis. The old testament history books/scrolls (i.e the real prophetical books) end too early with Judah being conquered while the kingship of Israel was still active. Nothing is said about what happened to the "South" Israelite military, just the "North" Israelite military, aka Judah/Benjamin.Last edited by Omniskeptical; 02-18-2015, 09:40 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Omniskeptical View PostI think the Muslims got the ball rolling.
But no, the Koine Greek doesn't support Anti-Jewishness, but rather Anti-Judahism against the tribe of Judah. The tribe of Judah were not supposed get excessive pay for there law enforcement duties. And there are many instances of the vocative which in Greek is neither singular nor plural but mass nounege. There is nothing condemning Israel in the New Testament, and even Acts is misrendered to condemn. Acts has several words to alarm the average Israelite about the Elders. Communist countries aren't full of wicked people, rather it is the free countries which have the most decadence; and the US had decadence even before, during and after the revolution.
The period of the history of Christianity I would reference would begin with Constantine to the modern times of the 20th Century.
EDIT: The Jews don't call themselves Israelites anymore; naming themselves after Judah. Yet there aren't Levites but rather Jews who become Rabbis. The old testament history books/scrolls (i.e the real prophetical books) end too early with Judah being conquered while the kingship of Israel was still active. Nothing is said about what happened to the "South" Israelite military, just the "North" Israelite military, aka Judah/Benjamin.Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-18-2015, 10:23 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostCondemning the history is obvious, but does not address the question.
Does not address the question: Is there a scriptural basis for anti-Jewishness in the history of Christianity or not?
These were common conflicts as occur throughout history, but the ~1600+ years of large scale brutal persecution, ethnic cleansing, venomous hatred, and denigration cannot be compared to what you describe above in numbers, magnitude in history.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
To deny that people have used the NT to justify their misguided persecution of the Jews would be to stick our heads in the sand.
But at the same time it's also worthwhile to point out that there's nothing negative in the NT said about the Jews for which you can't find something equally negative mentioned about them in the OT. If the NT is anti-semitic then the OT is just as anti-semitic as well, and on basically the same grounds.
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostDo you not understand English? You asked a question. I answered, "Of course." How can you miss that?
Originally posted by robrechtOf course, much of the New Testament witnesses to the polemical and deteriorating relations between various early Christian communities and factions and other Jewish groups.Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-19-2015, 07:29 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostTo deny that people have used the NT to justify their misguided persecution of the Jews would be to stick our heads in the sand.
But at the same time it's also worthwhile to point out that there's nothing negative in the NT said about the Jews for which you can't find something equally negative mentioned about them in the OT. If the NT is anti-Semitic then the OT is just as anti-Semitic as well, and on basically the same grounds.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYour use of 'Of course' was not clear. It was used in general reference to many conflicts or polemics of the time, which was not the question.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostIt was a direct answer to your question with additional explanation. Attention to context may help you understand better in the future.
Originally posted by robrecht
Of course, much of the New Testament witnesses to the polemical and deteriorating relations between various early Christian communities and factions and other Jewish groups.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNot so direct. In fact a little broad and vague. A simple 'yes' would be equivalent to 'of course.'Last edited by robrecht; 02-19-2015, 08:35 AM.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
IMO quibbling over the precise definition of "anti-Semitic" is an unnecessary distraction. Yes, there are other Semitic peoples. But the term historically refers to hatred of/discrimination against Jews."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
Comment
-
Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIMO quibbling over the precise definition of "anti-Semitic" is an unnecessary distraction. Yes, there are other Semitic peoples. But the term historically refers to hatred of/discrimination against Jews.Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-19-2015, 09:13 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIMO it is worth separating, because there are anti-Semitic views of stereotyping people of the Middle East such as Jews and Muslims, and even though it may refer to Jews it is primarily a racial prejudice. The NT references are specifically anti-Jewish and anti-Judaism, and not racial.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment