Islam: Allah has no son

[Trucker]

Not specifically....just pointing out a fun fact about Jesus and the NT.....

.....but it could be one of many possibilities.....

Hey hey! You like fun facts? Here's a great example of a fun fact for ya:

Pickthal 5:47 Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.

al-Ma'idah 005:047

5:47 وليحكم اهل الانجيل بما انزل الله فيه ومن لم يحكم بما انزل الله فاولئك هم الفاسقون
________________________________________
Transliteration Walyahkum ahlu al-injeeli bima anzala Allahu feehi waman lam yahkum bima anzala Allahu faola-ika humu alfasiqoona
Literal
And the New Testament's/Bible's people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers.

Now here, in easy to understand words, is Muhammad telling at least the Christians of his [Muhammad's] day to "Literal:And the New Testament's/Bible's people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers." But today Islam is trying to convince us our Scriptures are corrupted! However, the "Gospel" Muhammad is telling the Christians of his day to judge [or rule] by is the same Gospel we preach today! Different languages in many instances today, BUT PROVABLY THE SAME GOSPLE!!!

All of which leaves us with but two possibilities:

[1] Muhammad didn't know what he was talking about. Or

[2] Muhammad was deliberately deceiving the Christians of his day.

Doesn't say much for Muhammad now does it!!

It appears the Islamic powers that be forgot to delete the above quoted passage when the deleted the Satanic verses, huh!

[Dan Zebiri]

Correct Christian3, siam, hakeem and their ilk always avoid our points that expose the errors and flawed under belly of islam, the koran etc. Or when faced with the right answers.

Like the opportunistic cowards and full of intellectual dishonesty they are, they have already run away from my simple harsh questions put to them with tails between the legs. Or, like you and other Christians have encountered, they just ignore your points of facts and repeat questions that have been already answered, as if they were blind rats.

Another sign of intellectual dishonesty and the inability to think straight. So much for a "religion of truth" they claim to follow! Its only their tragedy.

You are trying to avoid my point.

[Dan Zebiri]

This is proof of your lies OR your ignorance of real and the FULL history of islamic theology OR BOTH, siam - shame on you by being intentionally DISINGENUOUS andIt was claiming - FALSELY - the "voilence (wrong spelling!) was for political reasons". It was thoroughly THEOLOGICAL in nature.

This orthodox islamic website confirms that -

https://mvslim.com/this-influential-...f-his-beliefs/

Ahmad ibn Hanbal - the theologian and fourth legal jurist of orthodox islam was imprisoned, tortured for 24-28 months in muslim jails. NOT Because of political persuasion or ideas.

He was not a politician or military leader but a kalam scholar of islamic theology, unlike the FALSE PICTURE you shamelessly try to paint here, siam!

To paint a picture that the kalam/mutazila schism and rift of islam was "only a political dispute" is a lie and falsehood to cover up the theological rift about the nature of God and his Word.

Then to claim blatantly, this islamic schism "petered out" is also false and totally INCORRECT by the historical facts.

It never really petered out but instead became a permanent RIFT AND SCHISM in islam. There are now 2 islams that are PERMANENTLY SPLIT AND Broken up over the divine nature of Allah, his kalam and its source and tawhid/monotheism.

This schism is totally an enormous source of tawhid and theological split up between Sunni and Shiah theologies. This THEOLOGICAL FIGHT among the two Islams "petered out" only in siam's convenient imaginary fantasy...

Shias say that God's word was never eternal and uncreated, but CREATED and finite. Meaning that there was a time where God had no word that existed with him and so can mean he was mute and dumb.

Sunnis say God's kalam - his word is "eternal and uncreated", and THIS militates, subverts and reduces Tawhid "monotheism" into non-monotheism and polytheism. The Shia's follow the mutazila definition which makes more sense. Siam anxiously wants to minimize and dismiss this fact.

Another MUSLIM site confirms this theological - NOT political, rift, struggle and permanent split in islamic doctrine:

https://www.tafseer-raheemi.com/q786...ent-to-prison/

This permanent islamic theological rift is clearly demonstrated in the Shia and orthodox divisions of islam. It calls into questions the so-called 'pure monotheism' that siam falsely claims is 'universal islamic doctrine'. And it has nothing to do with politics whatsoever. Both sunnis and shias claim "their monotheisms" is the true one, AND will fight to the death about it! As we can see happening until today.

We don't need to take siam's blatant claims for it, check it out for yourselves from the sources referred above. Now it is plain to see why people like siam and hakeem will all run away and/or ignore the facts when it is put to them. They are only interested in propogandizing islamis polemics but never in the Real TRUTH. For that is the only fantasy world of UNREALITY they live in.

Which for them is indeed shameful!

This is incorrect.
Though the debate about the ceatedness/uncreatedness (tablet) did occur, and did turn voilent---the voilence was for political reasons not doctrinal and the actual scholarly debate ended in stalemate and petered out because regardless of the status of the tablet---Muslims worship One God only and no other---so the issue had no relevance to the average Muslim person.

[Dan Zebiri]

Sunni and Shia Muslims debate and quarrel over the divine nature of God's word the Koran that continues right until today.

If, as Sunni muslims say the Koran is the word of Allah that is eternal AND uncreated then you have the "guarded tablets" which the "mother of the book" sits on, then there is no longer one God or "pure montheism" in islam.

This Shia discussion link proves the irreconcilable rift and schism that splits shia Islam from Sunni islam - over the divine nature -

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic...-or-uncreated/

Follow the debate and learn about the inconsistency of "pure monotheism" among muslims worldwide.

This is proof of your lies OR your ignorance of real and the FULL history of islamic theology OR BOTH, siam - shame on you by being intentionally DISINGENUOUS andIt was claiming - FALSELY - the "voilence (wrong spelling!) was for political reasons". It was thoroughly THEOLOGICAL in nature.

This orthodox islamic website confirms that -

https://mvslim.com/this-influential-...f-his-beliefs/

Ahmad ibn Hanbal - the theologian and fourth legal jurist of orthodox islam was imprisoned, tortured for 24-28 months in muslim jails. NOT Because of political persuasion or ideas.

He was not a politician or military leader but a kalam scholar of islamic theology, unlike the FALSE PICTURE you shamelessly try to paint here, siam!

To paint a picture that the kalam/mutazila schism and rift of islam was "only a political dispute" is a lie and falsehood to cover up the theological rift about the nature of God and his Word.

Then to claim blatantly, this islamic schism "petered out" is also false and totally INCORRECT by the historical facts.

It never really petered out but instead became a permanent RIFT AND SCHISM in islam. There are now 2 islams that are PERMANENTLY SPLIT AND Broken up over the divine nature of Allah, his kalam and its source and tawhid/monotheism.

This schism is totally an enormous source of tawhid and theological split up between Sunni and Shiah theologies. This THEOLOGICAL FIGHT among the two Islams "petered out" only in siam's convenient imaginary fantasy...

Shias say that God's word was never eternal and uncreated, but CREATED and finite. Meaning that there was a time where God had no word that existed with him and so can mean he was mute and dumb.

Sunnis say God's kalam - his word is "eternal and uncreated", and THIS militates, subverts and reduces Tawhid "monotheism" into non-monotheism and polytheism. The Shia's follow the mutazila definition which makes more sense. Siam anxiously wants to minimize and dismiss this fact.

Another MUSLIM site confirms this theological - NOT political, rift, struggle and permanent split in islamic doctrine:

https://www.tafseer-raheemi.com/q786...ent-to-prison/

This permanent islamic theological rift is clearly demonstrated in the Shia and orthodox divisions of islam. It calls into questions the so-called 'pure monotheism' that siam falsely claims is 'universal islamic doctrine'. And it has nothing to do with politics whatsoever. Both sunnis and shias claim "their monotheisms" is the true one, AND will fight to the death about it! As we can see happening until today.

We don't need to take siam's blatant claims for it, check it out for yourselves from the sources referred above. Now it is plain to see why people like siam and hakeem will all run away and/or ignore the facts when it is put to them. They are only interested in propogandizing islamis polemics but never in the Real TRUTH. For that is the only fantasy world of UNREALITY they live in.

Which for them is indeed shameful!

[Christian3]

Where is siam? I hope he is alright.

[Dan Zebiri]

He/she probably is, Christian3. I hope he's not just lying low, trying to run away from the facts presented. Thats a tactic typically practiced by Muslim preachers and propagandists when they cannot respond to the facts.

Then, after a while, they will revisit the same points as if they had not been discussed or rebutted before. Just watch the space.

Where is siam? I hope he is alright.

[siam]

And, once more, Christians believe in only one God. And Jesus said this one God was one God in three persons.

Apologies for abandoning the conversation.
I am presently having fun at another thread and with my time being limited, I could not continue participation in several conversations.....I apologize.

Muslims also believe in One God.

[Trucker]

Muslims also believe in One God.

As defined by Muhammad. Not the I AM God as defined in and by the Scriptures which Muhammad told the Christians of his day to follow. Which are provably the same Scriptures
we have, use, and quote you from today!!!!!

[Christian3]

Apologies for abandoning the conversation.
I am presently having fun at another thread and with my time being limited, I could not continue participation in several conversations.....I apologize.

Muslims also believe in One God.

Do you now believe Christians believe in only one God and not three as your Allah said?

[Dan Zebiri]

You can't have fun here In These threads obviously, running away from my posts and questions put to you. Face them and answer them rationally, siam.

Apologies for abandoning the conversation.
I am presently having fun at another thread and with my time being limited, I could not continue participation in several conversations.....I apologize.

Muslims also believe in One God.

[siam]

Do you now believe Christians believe in only one God and not three as your Allah said?

I have no idea what Christians believe or not as the Trinity is unclear to me. If a Christian says he believes in One God, I will take his word for it.

[siam]

You can't have fun here In These threads obviously, running away from my posts and questions put to you. Face them and answer them rationally, siam.

You have asked many interesting questions and I appreciate it.
I don't have much patience in defending/clarifying a point that someone else insists I believe in when I have explained that I do not believe it.
I do not believe the Quran is God. There is nothing more to say on the topic.

[siam]

As defined by Muhammad. Not the I AM God as defined in and by the Scriptures which Muhammad told the Christians of his day to follow. Which are provably the same Scriptures
we have, use, and quote you from today!!!!!

??point is...???

[Dan Zebiri]

And that is not what I said. The koran is God.

Muslims treat the koran as a divine object. That is idolatry.

Sunni muslims hold that the ummul kitab aka "mother of the book" 13/39, and the so called "guarded tablets" mentioned in the koran as Eternal AND uncreated. That's divinity right there.

The Shias try to avoid this subversion and contradiction to "pure monotheism" so they deny that to say the Koran was never eternal NOR uncreated. So don't try to skirt this clash and tawhid rift and schism in the TWO Islam's.

There is definitely NO true or pure monotheism in islam. Especially in Sunnism ie the orthodox strand of islam.

It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black when you try to imply that Christians worship "3 gods" per sura 5/116. It's just a flawed and false accusation from your koran!


QUOTE=siam;729391]You have asked many interesting questions and I appreciate it.
I don't have much patience in defending/clarifying a point that someone else insists I believe in when I have explained that I do not believe it.
I do not believe the Quran is God. There is nothing more to say on the topic.[/QUOTE]

[Trucker]

??point is...???

My point was and is simply that Muslims worship a go as defined by Muhammad. Not the I AM God as defined in and by the Scriptures which Muhammad told the Christians of his day to follow. Which are provably the same Scriptures
we have, use, and quote you from today!!!!!

Something you don't understand???