Your religious beliefs are false, now what?

[Littlejoe]

I made the following statement to a close friend just the other day as we were discussing our faith: "If you were to bring me absolute proof that God doesn't exist it would not change my beliefs. My experience when I was 23 years old marked me forever as a child of God." It would be equivalent to bringing me absolute proof that I haven't been married for 29 years. You can show me the proof, but the married life I have lived tells me different. But I guess, if Christianity were shown to be false, then I would default back to some sort of theism. Atheism is not an option for me.

[shunyadragon]

If Christianity was proven false, I would probably become an agnostic with strong leanings toward Atheism. Out of necessity I would reluctantly feel obligated to leave the door open to a supernatural dimension.

This highlighted, like most posters in this thread set the bar at the never never land criteria for why one one leave there faith. When considering the criteria of 'proven false,' What would the criteria be?

Proof is a rather nebulous thing outside logic and math. Even logic is dependent on assumptions and premises. In apologetics it is unlikely that different worldviews, like theism versus atheism will agree on the foundation assumptions and premises of the logical arguments..

[KingsGambit]

I would go on an intense spiritual search with no particular conclusion in mind.

[Scrawly]

This highlighted, like most posters in this thread set the bar at the never never land criteria for why one one leave there faith. When considering the criteria of 'proven false,' What would the criteria be?

Proof is a rather nebulous thing outside logic and math. Even logic is dependent on assumptions and premises. In apologetics it is unlikely that different worldviews, like theism versus atheism will agree on the foundation assumptions and premises of the logical arguments..

I think the OP was posed as a hypothetical, Shuny.

[Scrawly]

I made the following statement to a close friend just the other day as we were discussing our faith: "If you were to bring me absolute proof that God doesn't exist it would not change my beliefs. My experience when I was 23 years old marked me forever as a child of God." It would be equivalent to bringing me absolute proof that I haven't been married for 29 years. You can show me the proof, but the married life I have lived tells me different. But I guess, if Christianity were shown to be false, then I would default back to some sort of theism. Atheism is not an option for me.

Would you be willing to provide a detailed description of the bolded? I'm rather curious!

[shunyadragon]

I think the OP was posed as a hypothetical, Shuny.

Not really a good response. The hypothetical was a very high bar where everyone is safe and comfortable with their belieff.

[Juvenal]

I didn't ask you or Omni to leave. I asked you both to stay on topic. Your first response in this thread had nothing to do with the question that was asked. Lay off the victimization card.

Yup, that is, after asking folks to "stop polluting your thread" with their nonsense, in my case referencing arguments you've previously proven yourself incapable of understanding. Jesse, you don't "get" atheism, and so responses coming from that position are going to sound like nonsense to you. That's not my problem, and not something that's going to prevent me from continuing to post thoughts beyond your ken.

This ain't the kiddy pool, kid.

Oh, and lay off the "victimization card" card, too. You don't need more excuses to avoid thinking.

[Juvenal]

If I'm going to go to Church, Jesse, I'm going to go where they actually believe something.

their first emergence from the matrix of Canaanite polytheism. Early Judaism, like early Christianity, placed its original cast of divine characters into new roles while relocating most of their original spiritual values into the house of the rising deity. Like the details of English grammar that become apparent only when learning another language, the details of Christian belief are highlighted by a study of ancient and foreign religions, including their closest and more distant relatives.

I remember a "sermon" on why "God" lets bad things happen to good people given in a Krishna temple off Lincoln Avenue back in Chicago.

Obviously, I like the UUs because they welcome "nonbelievers" like me. But I don't stop in to celebrate the things I don't believe. I stop in to engage with the "universal" beliefs I share with you as a Christian ... and with Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Neo-pagans ... because when all is said and done, despite our dissimilar beliefs in destinations after we finish the course, while we're here, we believe we're all in this together.

As ever, Jesse

[Jesse]

Yup, that is, after asking folks to "stop polluting your thread" with their nonsense, in my case referencing arguments you've previously proven yourself incapable of understanding. Jesse, you don't "get" atheism, and so responses coming from that position are going to sound like nonsense to you. That's not my problem, and not something that's going to prevent me from continuing to post thoughts beyond your ken.

This ain't the kiddy pool, kid.

Oh, and lay off the "victimization card" card, too. You don't need more excuses to avoid thinking.

You do realize that there are other threads you would feel more comfortable trolling right? You are obviously incapable of understanding what this thread is even about. I'm not trying to "get" anything. I am asking TWebber's their opinions on a topic I thought would be interesting. Everyone in his thread has been great in responding to the question. The only two that haven't made a worthwhile contribution has been you and Omni. You seem to be more interested in trying to start an argument where there isn't one. Find someone else to argue with, because I'm not interested. Please go find a new schtick.

[hamster]

Not really a good response. The hypothetical was a very high bar where everyone is safe and comfortable with their belieff.

It's a thought experiment... it's very unlikely that one will encounter a pink elephant that plays smooth jazz but you can still talk about what you'd do if you found one

[Adrift]

It's a thought experiment... it's very unlikely that one will encounter a pink elephant that plays smooth jazz but you can still talk about what you'd do if you found one

If other threads are any indication, he's unable to comprehend hypotheticals. I think its based on some sort of suspicion that there may be sinister ulterior motives by the OP that he hasn't quite figured out yet, but is pretty certain is there. He seems terrified getting caught in some sort of trap that may attempt to nail down any of his beliefs. Its a very skittish and nervous way of engaging with others in normal discussion, but I guess we all got our quirks.

[Cow Poke]

Good luck on your move, CP!

Now I know where you're coming from, or at least I can still, vaguely, remember thinking something like the same thing back when: Folks who don't share my beliefs about Jesus don't "really" believe in anything,

You are so far off on this it's not funny. You don't know squat about where I'm coming from.

[Zymologist]

Obviously, I like the UUs because they welcome "nonbelievers" like me. But I don't stop in to celebrate the things I don't believe. I stop in to engage with the "universal" beliefs I share with you as a Christian ... and with Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Neo-pagans ... because when all is said and done, despite our dissimilar beliefs in destinations after we finish the course, while we're here, we believe we're all in this together.

As ever, Jesse

Out of curiosity, what would you say these universal beliefs are? Or a couple examples, maybe.

[Zymologist]

To the OP: I've thought about this before, and I honestly don't know what I would do. Some days I think I probably wouldn't change much, other days I think I would change for the worse. My life would become darker regardless.

[37818]

The other belief systems also need to be so compared. Two at a time.

If one believes in Biblical Christianity. And the Baha'i faith that is not being believed in is actually true. What is the consequence to the one believing in Christianity?

If one believes in the Baha'i faith. And Biblical Christianity that is not being believed is actually true. What is the consequence to be one believing in the Baha'i faith?

On the likelihood what is going to be believed will be wrong, which belief system of those two would be the better choice?

Please explain your answer.

The question of 'actually true,' remain problematic as I explained. For example, 'What is Biblical Christianity?' is open to significant inconsistent disagreement among those who believe differently.

Easy, at present the Baha'i Faith, after evaluating all the possible evidence found in scripture, philosophy and history. Also, prayer and the contemplative search for knowledge of God will always be a part of my journey. At present I find no legitimate reason to believe any one of the variations of Christianity. I fully acknowledge the human fallibility of my decisions and if new knowledge becomes known I may change.

When, comparing one faith with another, it is true if you pick the wrong theistic belief your in trouble with God. The consequences are up to God, and not up to human speculation or claims, since there is no consistency in the claims of consequences. If God does not exist, there are unfortunate consequences of different religious causing conflicts and suffering.

In the Baha'i Faith the after life is a journey through many worlds, and sincerity of belief and knowledge will determine your journey. Rejecting God, you will not know God in the journey and suffer the consequences determined by God.

If Christianity is true, and your not Christian (which of the many different is a problem) you will suffer the punishment or judgment of which ever division of Christianity may be true.

If you compare Judaism and Christianity which is true. If your Christian and that is not true, your a heretic and suffer the appropriate punishment. If Christianity is true (which one?), the consequences of judgment will be whatever which church belief is true.

Pascal's wager is a fear based farse. I believe in the sincere search for knowledge, and not fear of consequences.

There are a number is issues with your response.

Pascal's wager is a fear based farse. I believe in the sincere search for knowledge, and not fear of consequences.

There are two issues here.
First:

Pascal's wager is a fear based farse.

You seem to wnat to duck this. By dismissing it as some kind of spiritual terrorism. Fear mongering.

I believe in the sincere search for knowledge, and not fear of consequences.

Consequences are a real part of this life, when really bad decisions are made. You are fine if there are no serious consequences to wrong spiritual choices.

The question of 'actually true,' remain problematic as I explained. For example, 'What is Biblical Christianity?' is open to significant inconsistent disagreement among those who believe differently.

That is the reason the odds are against us making any choice. It is more likely than not to be wrong. Testing choices premising one true and the opposite false. And then reversing the comparison to attempt to get an equal comparison of the two views. It is for the very reason of the question of what is "actually true" that this method should be used. It would seem you do not see it that way.