Science of Morality

[Tassman]

Of course it depends on personal wants and desires Jim, that is all you have - personal or collective wants and desires. Look at it this way - say by some miracle most men become at peace with each other - but you have a significant minority that just hate this new world (for what ever reason) - how is it the best possible world for them? It isn't.

Our

[seer]

Our

Tass, why do men have intrinsic value? Intrinsic means it has a quality essential to its nature. How does a human have anymore intrinsic value than a house fly?

[Tassman]

Tass, why do men have intrinsic value? Intrinsic means it has a quality essential to its nature. How does a human have anymore intrinsic value than a house fly?

[seer]

So the house fly has intrinsic value Tass? Did you ever kill one?

[Tassman]

So the house fly has intrinsic value Tass? Did you ever kill one?

[seer]

Yes, but the instinct to survive does not mean that we or house flies have intrinsic VALUE. You made that up, with no grounding, and you don't believe it - you belie your own claim every time you kill a fly or eat a steak.

[Tassman]

Yes, but the instinct to survive does not mean that we or house flies have intrinsic VALUE. You made that up, with no grounding, and you don't believe it - you belie your own claim every time you kill a fly or eat a steak.

The only

[seer]

The only

That is silly Tass, not all men value their fellow men, and this is why value is subjective not intrinsic. Any more than house flies have intrinsic worth.

[Tassman]

That is silly Tass, not all men value their fellow men, and this is why value is subjective not intrinsic. Any more than house flies have intrinsic worth.

[seer]

Tsss, yes the survival instinct is intrinsic, but value is subjective. As the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is subjective.

[Tassman]

Tass, yes the survival instinct is intrinsic, but value is subjective. As the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is subjective.

[seer]

But that still does not equal intrinsic value Tass, it is subjective value however.

[JimL]

But that still does not equal intrinsic value Tass, it is subjective value however.

I don't think you understand what intrinsic value means seer.

[seer]

I don't think you understand what intrinsic value means seer.

Yes, I do. And human beings do not or can not have intrinsic value - any more than a housefly has intrinsic value. If you think otherwise, tell us all how.

[JimL]

Yes, I do. And human beings do not or can not have intrinsic value - any more than a housefly has intrinsic value. If you think otherwise, tell us all how.

Well it would be nice if you would define intrinsic value for me then, because it seems that philosophers can't even come to agreement on a coherent explanation for the concept. So what do you mean by human beings having intrinsic value as compared to the housefly which you implied does not?