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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Is Time Real?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post"now" is an illusion.
God knows all of space-time at once. He knows what you will eat for breakfast two weeks from now. The person you are when you are reading this post won't know that. But the person you will be in two-weeks will know because it will have happened. You made a free will choice and God already knows what it is. The future is just as real as the past and the present.
Yet, unless he forces you to eat a specific breakfast in two weeks, taking away your free will, then there is no way for him to know what you will eat if the future does not exist.
Not quite. I think that God knows the future because when he created the universe, he created the entire universe which includes the 4th dimension of time, just like he created the 3 dimensions of space. Also I am a molinist but that might be getting in too deep for this thread.
The discussion is bifurcating too much to go into any details, but I'm not sure that view really makes sense. That's really as much I feel comfortable saying, because right now this thread is growing like a fractal.
Changeless means God's essential qualities and nature. It doesn't mean he can't experience anything.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI'm not sure I used the word 'now', anywhere.
I'm not sure you actually answered the question I gave you. Is your view, that God know about this, because in some sense He's experiencing the space-time he's created, or would He have known about this prior to creating the world?
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostSeer A black hole is made of nothing but exists."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostIt's a very large mass with a very small volume.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostIf by Logos, you mean The Son, then no He didn't undergo change during the Incarnation, but a nature was added to the Divine Essence: the human nature and a human will.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI think it provides the wrong kind of explanation for how God can know the future: "He can see it, he just looks into the past, or into the future to see what's coming." I think its a nice cartoon model for how God experiences the world, but I don't think it captures it. For one simple problem:
God has no sensations. He can't them, because He can't undergo change, and he doesn't need them because He's omniscient.
Also His knowledge of the world, is not dependent on the world, but here you seem to be saying that God only knows about the future because He can see it somehow.
Do you agree?
Presumes facts not in evidence. I don't see how you could possibly support this.
So, how do you support it? I'd like to know because I really don't see this.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo time has no physical substance. Like I asked, is there anything else in the universe that is real but does not have physical substance?
When you boil matter down to particles it gets less and less 'material' as we understand the term in the macro sense. Assuming string theory* 'matter' is somewhat illusory - an experience we have but not a good description of the actual reality.
*As I recall, other theories of particle composition have similar conclusions. Your mileage may vary."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI didn't claim that God can't perform actions, but it remains the case that God Himself does not undergo change during these, and in as much as a sensation requires a change in the one having it, God can't sense anything. Also since God is omniscient on His own, from eternity, even without having created the world, it can't then be the world that is the cause of God's knowledge of the future. Otherwise God would have undergone change, when He caused the universe to exist."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThe fact that it is not "made of" anything does not mean it has no physical substance."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Related Threads
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