Originally posted by shunyadragon
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Is "Why is there something rather than nothing?" a legitimate question?
Collapse
X
-
אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostI am not defining your beliefs, merely asking you about the foundations or justification of your beliefs. You are free to explain with your own terms. So if you still believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of (at least parts of) the Baha'i scriptures, would you please explain why you believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the Baha'i sacred scriptures?Originally posted by Sen McGlinnThe reference to spiritual laws and teachings being infallible and inerrant came from shunheydragon, and I cannot speak for what he meant. I however said of spiritual laws and teachings that one "can only say that one has faith in it and seeks to apply it in life. Or that one believes the teachings, if applied, lead to a better life, a better world, a better picture of God's will, etc. "
The teachings I was thinking of are (1) general moral laws, such as not lying, stealing, killing and the like;
(2) teachings about religious practice, such as the times and types of prayer, fasting, pilgrimage,
(3) religious teachings about society, such as (in Bahai) the advocacy of consultative decision making in politics and within the Bahai community; advocacy of world peace through mutual security, international law and an international tribunal; equality of all and abolition of prejudices and discrimination; separation of church and state (religious leaders should not interfere in politics; state should not interfere with individual conscience and religious practice).
For all of these, it is I think meaningless to say "this is infallible." One might say, "I think this is an infallible remedy." The proof of such things is in the pudding.
One principle of the Harmony of Science and religion is an example of where knowledge evolves, and it is the obligation that all scripture must be interpreted in the light of the evolving knowledge of science. This principle 'in principle' may be considered 'inerrant and infallible,' but the understanding of scripture and the knowledge of science will evolve and change over time.
I also believe that Sen explained well the problem of 'inerrancy and infallibility' from the human perspective. Also translation and human interpretation become problematic in terms of absolute truths. Again I believe that the 'Principles and basic teachings revealed in the scripture of the Baha'i Faith are the standards for our Age, which results in the eventual unification of humanity over the millennia.
The bottom line is I consider the Baha'i scripture the best answer for humanity in this Age. Evolution and Change over time to meet the needs of the evolving nature of human spirituality is an aspect of inerrancy and infallibility.
In contrast in the Roman Church there are certain Doctrines and Dogma that are absolute and can never change because they are inerrant and infallible in the absolute sense.
Before I became a Baha'i I strongly preferred Buddhist and Taoist philosophy and thinking. This thinking has influenced me since. The two foundation principles are 'Nothing is Necessary,' and 'Impermanence rules' from the human perspective. Considering the whole of human history and human fallibility it becomes abundantly apparent that everything that exists and is believed will fade and be gone in a matter of a short period of time when compared to the vastness of the physical existence we can witness. As far as the certainty of what we believe, considering the fallibility of humans, and the diversity of beliefs, All our beliefs are most likely flawed and probably wrong.
That is why I believe 'I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.'Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-28-2014, 08:02 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt is not whether I believe in inerrancy and infallibility or not. It is how inerrancy and infallibility is considered in context of scripture. Since the Baha'i view is that Revelation is an evolving process over time the view that inerrancy and infallibility is a static unchanging absolute truth does not work as a general rule of scripture in the Baha'i Faith. There are some 'Truths' which are unchanging and absolute in the Baha'i scriptures such as the nature of God being absolutely One united, unnamable, and unknowable. Revelation reveals progressively the attributes and knowledge of God.
One principle of the Harmony of Science and religion is an example of where knowledge evolves, and it is the obligation that all scripture must be interpreted in the light of the evolving knowledge of science. This principle 'in principle' may be considered 'inerrant and infallible,' but the understanding of scripture and the knowledge of science will evolve and change over time.
I also believe that Sen explained well the problem of 'inerrancy and infallibility' from the human perspective. Also translation and human interpretation become problematic in terms of absolute truths. Again I believe that the 'Principles and basic teachings revealed in the scripture of the Baha'i Faith are the standards for our Age, which results in the eventual unification of humanity over the millennia.
The bottom line is I consider the Baha'i scripture the best answer for humanity in this Age. Evolution and Change over time to meet the needs of the evolving nature of human spirituality is an aspect of inerrancy and infallibility.
In contrast in the Roman Church there are certain Doctrines and Dogma that are absolute and can never change because they are inerrant and infallible in the absolute sense.
Before I became a Baha'i I strongly preferred Buddhist and Taoist philosophy and thinking. This thinking has influenced me since. The two foundation principles are 'Nothing is Necessary,' and 'Impermanence rules' from the human perspective. Considering the whole of human history and human fallibility it becomes abundantly apparent that everything that exists and is believed will fade and be gone in a matter of a short period of time when compared to the vastness of the physical existence we can witness. As far as the certainty of what we believe, considering the fallibility of humans, and the diversity of beliefs, All our beliefs are most likely flawed and probably wrong.
That is why I believe 'I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.'אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
If everything humans believe will change, then so will the definition of God as, "One, united, unnameable, and unknowable," will it not?O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.
A neat video of dead languages!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Kelp(p) View PostIf everything humans believe will change, then so will the definition of God as, "One, united, unnameable, and unknowable," will it not?
No, the nature of God will probably remains one of the most absolute inerrant and infallible teachings of Baha'i Scriptures. Even though the revealed attributes and spiritual teachings and Laws may evolve, this will not change. Actually there are certain other divine Laws of the Baha'i Faith that will not 'likely' change radically but may evolve. As with all religions 'unlawful death' (murder) is prohibited. The concept of what is meant by 'unlawful death' evolves and changes.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-28-2014, 01:02 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostIf this were what I believe, I would certainly not express it by saying that the Baha'i sacred scriptures (or parts of them) are infallible and inerrant, just as I do not believe that any scriptures (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc) or church pronouncements are infallible and inerrant. We are all human and fallible as are our writings.
One the other hand the Roman Church does consider some of their Doctrines and Dogma as absolutely inerrant and infallible and not subject to change, regardless of what you believe or not. The Roman Church does not accept Revelation evolving beyond the One True Church, as the Baha'i Faith considers the constant evolution and change of Revelation in human history, before and beyond the human experience.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-28-2014, 09:07 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI would and did. I have no problem with dialogue and discussion as to what 'inerrant and infallible' means in terms of the Baha'i scripture and how it applies in context.
One the other hand the Roman Church does consider some of their Doctrines and Dogma as absolutely inerrant and infallible and not subject to change, regardless of what you believe or not. The Roman Church does not accept Revelation evolving beyond the One True Church, as the Baha'i Faith considers the constant evolution and change of Revelation in human history, before and beyond the human experience.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIt is not whether I believe in inerrancy and infallibility or not. ...[/B]אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by robrecht View PostIndeed, that was not the question. The question was, "would you please explain why you believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the Baha'i sacred scriptures?
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostAnswered this question in detail. DONE. No further comment needed. Please read posts if you wish to actually understand. my viewאָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostIs truth falsifiable? Truth is contingent upon what actually exists or is of reality. Is reality falsifiable?
". . . from the eternal infinite matrix . . . " is meaningless. And therefore utter nonsense.
Metaphysics verses the empirical. There is no agreed upon metaphysical method to deal with all religions or the question of God or no God.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe nature of our physical existence is falsifiable.O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.
A neat video of dead languages!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Kelp(p) View PostHow? We could never tell whether or not we aren't a brain in a vat.
Comment
-
Ok, then Descartes' evil demon, a version of the Matrix, whatever. The point is, why trust that our senses point to something real?
If we didn't physically exist, how could we prove that we didn't (falsification)?Last edited by Kelp(p); 11-29-2014, 01:27 AM.O Gladsome Light of the Holy Glory of the Immortal Father, Heavenly, Holy, Blessed Jesus Christ! Now that we have come to the setting of the sun and behold the light of evening, we praise God Father, Son and Holy Spirit. For meet it is at all times to worship Thee with voices of praise. O Son of God and Giver of Life, therefore all the world doth glorify Thee.
A neat video of dead languages!
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by shunyadragon, 03-01-2024, 09:40 AM
|
173 responses
643 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by shunyadragon
06-07-2024, 07:30 AM
|
Comment