Determinism And Rationality.

[Stoic]

Then what is it? If it is not DNA?

Maybe it's a brain of a certain size and complexity.

[seer]

Maybe it's a brain of a certain size and complexity.

So DNA in a certain configuration is self-aware. It is still DNA. And I'm not sure how complexity equals awareness.

[Stoic]

So DNA in a certain configuration is self-aware. It is still DNA. And I'm not sure how complexity equals awareness.

I'm not sure either. But I don't really have to be, any more than I have to be sure how that self-awareness came about.

[seer]

I'm not sure either. But I don't really have to be, any more than I have to be sure how that self-awareness came about.

Are you sure that it came about through completely natural means?

[shunyadragon]

Are you sure that it came about through completely natural means?

There is absolutely no objectiveverifiableevidence that our physicalexistence andeverything in it is completely natural.

[seer]

There is absolutely no objectiveverifiableevidence that our physicalexistence andeverything in it is completely natural.

Does that include your rational soul?

[shunyadragon]

Does that include your rational soul?

Yes, but the rational soul is an independent entity from the mind, consciousness and self -awareness. There is no objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the soul. at present. Actually a separate thread topic.

[seer]

No, the rational soul is an independent entity from the mind, consciousness and self -awareness. There is no objective verifiable evidence for the existence of the soul. at present. Actually a separate thread topic.

Well no, according to your faith the rational soul is the intellect.

inherent properties of the soulthe soulcan discover the realities of things, comprehend the peculiarities of beings, and penetrate the mysteries of existence. All sciences, knowledge, arts, wonders, institutions, discoveries and enterprises come from the exercised intelligence of the rational soul

[Stoic]

Are you sure that it came about through completely natural means?

No, but I have no good reason to believe otherwise.

[seer]

No, but I have no good reason to believe otherwise.

Well you are a materialist... No room for anything else...

[shunyadragon]

Well no, according to your faith the rational soul is the intellect.

inherent properties of the soulthe soulcan discover the realities of things, comprehend the peculiarities of beings, and penetrate the mysteries of existence. All sciences, knowledge, arts, wonders, institutions, discoveries and enterprises come from the exercised intelligence of the rational soul

Yes the soul has these attributes, but independent of the body and mind of humans.

You perpetually try to dishonestly and selectively cite the Baha'i Faith which you do not believe. The soul in the Baha'i beief is separate from the Body from the very beginning of life.

[cite=https://bahaiteachings.org/reality-of-the-soul/]
Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.

We disagree on this, but has nothing to do with the fact that other animals like other primates, sea mammals, and elephants habe the attribute os self awareness.

[seer]

Yes the soul has these attributes, but independent of the body and mind of humans.

You perpetually try to dishonestly and selectively cite the Baha'i Faith which you do not believe. The soul in the Baha'i beief is separate from the Body from the very beginning of life.

[cite=https://bahaiteachings.org/reality-of-the-soul/]
Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.

We disagree on this, but has nothing to do with the fact that other animals like other primates, sea mammals, and elephants habe the attribute os self awareness.

Shunny:

The mind is not independent of the soul it is an inherent property of the soul. Your very thoughts and reasoning, understanding comes from the soul. Nothing you just quoted contradicts that. So human reasoning is not a natural phenomenon, it comes from the immaterial soul.

[Tassman]

Well you are a materialist... No room for anything else...

There is no objective, verifiable evidence that there IS anything else.

[seer]

There is no objective, verifiable evidence that there IS anything else.

According to what, science? The science you said could never prove anything?

[Tassman]

According to what, science? The science you said could never prove anything?

According to the as I said. Or do you have objective, verifiable evidence of a non-material universe?