Originally posted by Tassman
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View Post
It was not until 29 February, more than a month after the Journal article and almost six weeks after the first case of coronavirus was confirmed in the country that the Trump administration put that advice into practice. Laboratories and hospitals would finally be allowed to conduct their own Covid-19 tests to speed up the process.
On Feb 24 Pelosi was in China town telling people to come to China town, the virus was no big deal. The WHO said Trump was wrong - the travel ban was not necessary.
World Health Organization Downplayed COVID-19 Risk At First, Urged Open Borders
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...-open-borders/Last edited by seer; 04-02-2020, 07:57 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBull crap. The WHO was down playing the virus too, as was Pelosi. From you link:
It was not until 29 February, more than a month after the Journal article and almost six weeks after the first case of coronavirus was confirmed in the country that the Trump administration put that advice into practice. Laboratories and hospitals would finally be allowed to conduct their own Covid-19 tests to speed up the process.
On Feb 24 Pelosi was in China town telling people to come to China town, the virus was no big deal. The WHO said Trump was wrong - the travel ban was not necessary.
World Health Organization Downplayed COVID-19 Risk At First, Urged Open Borders
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...-open-borders/
In other words, the WHO was recommending using the legal border crossings as check points for the virus and minimizing the chance that illegal border crossings would spike and worsen the situation.
Meanwhile, there is no question that pretty much everyone minimized the outbreak at the outset. The primary issue is how long that lasted before action was taken. As late as mid-March, Trump and members of the GOP were still downplaying the outbreak. We are at the beginning of April and there is still no national lock-down, still no coordination of medical purchases between states, still the sale of medical supplies needed here to other countries, still no action on using the Defense Production Act (though it has been invoked for close to a couple of weeks now). Heck, until only a few days ago, medical supply companies were still selling their supplies to the highest bidder - pitting the states aganst each other and ensuring that the supplies would go where there was the most money rather than where there was the most need.
It's a mess - and the man at the top cannot put his own ego aside long enough to ensure the right people are in the right places doing the right things. Meanwhile, many of his administration's policy priorities are happening "under the radar" while we're all distracted. EPA has stopped enforcing pollution standards and promised no post-crisis follow-up. Fuel efficiency standards are suspended across the board. The list goes on. And then they point at the Democrats and accuse them of using the crisis to leverage their agenda. It boggles the mind.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostFrom your own link...
In other words, the WHO was recommending using the legal border crossings as check points for the virus and minimizing the chance that illegal border crossings would spike and worsen the situation.
Meanwhile, there is no question that pretty much everyone minimized the outbreak at the outset. The primary issue is how long that lasted before action was taken. As late as mid-March, Trump and members of the GOP were still downplaying the outbreak. We are at the beginning of April and there is still no national lock-down, still no coordination of medical purchases between states, still the sale of medical supplies needed here to other countries, still no action on using the Defense Production Act (though it has been invoked for close to a couple of weeks now). Heck, until only a few days ago, medical supply companies were still selling their supplies to the highest bidder - pitting the states aganst each other and ensuring that the supplies would go where there was the most money rather than where there was the most need.
It's a mess - and the man at the top cannot put his own ego aside long enough to ensure the right people are in the right places doing the right things. Meanwhile, many of his administration's policy priorities are happening "under the radar" while we're all distracted. EPA has stopped enforcing pollution standards and promised no post-crisis follow-up. Fuel efficiency standards are suspended across the board. The list goes on. And then they point at the Democrats and accuse them of using the crisis to leverage their agenda. It boggles the mind.
More than nine-in-ten people worldwide live in countries with travel restrictions amid COVID-19
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...amid-covid-19/Last edited by seer; 04-02-2020, 08:14 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou are correct - pretty much everyone minimized the outbreak early on. And just about everyone followed Trump's lead by closing borders and stopping flights.
Trump started restricting travel on January 31st by refusing incoming travel from China for non-citizens. He then added restrictions piecemeal to get where we are today. And yes, the initial reaction from the left was "racist" and "here we go again." Frankly, I don't blame them. After 4 years of anti-immigration language and action, to assume that this administration was simply taking advantage of the situation to push forward their agenda is a perfectly natural response. And I doubt the administration's decision was free of a dual motivation. This is a seriously corrupt and dysfunctional administration. We've been hearing and seeing that for 3+ years now. Of course, anyone on the inside reporting that has been immediately denounced and flayed in the right-leaning media and by most of Trump's base. That has been the formula: if you cannot destroy the message - destroy the messenger.
The same tactic is regularly on display on this forum.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostWell...technically...the first country to restrict travel was China.
Trump started restricting travel on January 31st by refusing incoming travel from China for non-citizens. He then added restrictions piecemeal to get where we are today. And yes, the initial reaction from the left was "racist" and "here we go again." Frankly, I don't blame them. After 4 years of anti-immigration language and action, to assume that this administration was simply taking advantage of the situation to push forward their agenda is a perfectly natural response. And I doubt the administration's decision was free of a dual motivation. This is a seriously corrupt and dysfunctional administration. We've been hearing and seeing that for 3+ years now. Of course, anyone on the inside reporting that has been immediately denounced and flayed in the right-leaning media and by most of Trump's base. That has been the formula: if you cannot destroy the message - destroy the messenger.
The same tactic is regularly on display on this forum.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI don't remember China stopping flights from coming in, what I do remember was them allowing flights to go out long after they knew how deadly the virus was (infecting the rest of the world). But like I said I'm glad to see others following Trump's good example - countless lives saved!
Our first case was January 21st. On January 31st (10 days later), Trump announced restrictions, which took effect on February 2, to non-U.S.-citizens traveling from China, with a list of about 11 permitted exceptions. Then he began adding to the restrictions piecemeal for the next 6 weeks.
So yes, Trump was one of the first to restrict international travel. He was not one of the most effective and closing borders is a minimal effort. Limiting some travel from one country (the most infected) almost two weeks after the infection is detected within our borders doesn't significantly curtail the movement of a virus that is already present in the U.S. So Trump gets a nod - but not much more. And I have seen no evidence that anyone was "following Trump's example." And note that Trump has STILL not done anything to restrict travel within the U.S.Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-02-2020, 09:33 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostEven if I accept that, both Brown and Bauckham were Christian and Bauckham made it clear that the New Testament was reliable. And the fact that the Apostle and Disciples were mostly still around when these books were written. They were for the Gospel of Luke and Acts, the Letters of Paul, For Mark and Matthew. So there is no evidence that they were merely handed down by tradition when the followers of Christ were still in the picture as Bauckham makes clear.Also I referenced the Gospel of John, the letters of John and Peter which do claim to be eyewitness accounts. And I have no good reason to think those accounts were false.
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Originally posted by seer View PostI don't remember China stopping flights from coming in, what I do remember was them allowing flights to go out long after they knew how deadly the virus was (infecting the rest of the world). But like I said I'm glad to see others following Trump's good example - countless lives saved!
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There is zero actual evidence that the letters of Peter, especially First Peter, is a "fake." And no the letters of John and Gospel are not too old for some one who lived to his 90s. But my point all along was that there were claims to eyewitness testimony in certain books, that is true. And modern scholarship is always changing... Who knows what they will come up with tomorrow.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View Post
World Health Organization director praises Trump's leadership in response to coronavirus pandemic
The head of the World Health Organization on Wednesday praised President Trump for his leadership in handling the novel coronavirus outbreak and said the president is "taking responsibility" for leading the United States' response to the global pandemic.
WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the United Nations health agency has repeatedly called for the heads of state to lead a "whole of government" response to COVID-19 and said Trump was leading by example.
"That's exactly what he's doing, which we appreciate because fighting this pandemic needs political commitment," Tedros said during an afternoon press briefing in Geneva.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-...sSycsVFDAItbQALast edited by seer; 04-03-2020, 07:02 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Tass, it was China who put the world at risk!
World Health Organization director praises Trump's leadership in response to coronavirus pandemic
The head of the World Health Organization on Wednesday praised President Trump for his leadership in handling the novel coronavirus outbreak and said the president is "taking responsibility" for leading the United States' response to the global pandemic.
WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the United Nations health agency has repeatedly called for the heads of state to lead a "whole of government" response to COVID-19 and said Trump was leading by example.
"That's exactly what he's doing, which we appreciate because fighting this pandemic needs political commitment," Tedros said during an afternoon press briefing in Geneva.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-...sSycsVFDAItbQA
As for China - yes - they put the world at risk. So too is Trump. More importantly, he has put our entire country at risk. And he has put his own base at risk. There are ten states (as of last night) without shelter-in-place orders, and they are all led by GOP governors who are Trump sycophants. While their infection and death numbers are currently relatively low, they have some of the steepest growth curves in the country. Eventually, they will see significantly more infection and death due to the inaction of their leadership. If the citizens of those states are smart they will recognize this. More likely, the members of Mr. Trump's base, led by Mr. Trump, will cast around for someone else to blame and continue to worship Mr. Trump. But those middle voters...it will be interesting to see what they do. There is no state in the country that can go to Mr. Trump if both the liberals/progressives AND the moderates in that state vote for the Democratic candidate.Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-03-2020, 08:53 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAs for China - yes - they put the world at risk. So too is Trump. More importantly, he has put our entire country at risk. And he has put his own base at risk. There are ten states (as of last night) without shelter-in-place orders, and they are all led by GOP governors who are Trump sycophants. While their infection and death numbers are currently relatively low, they have some of the steepest growth curves in the country. Eventually, they will see significantly more infection and death due to the inaction of their leadership. If the citizens of those states are smart they will recognize this. More likely, the members of Mr. Trump's base, led by Mr. Trump, will cast around for someone else to blame and continue to worship Mr. Trump. But those middle voters...it will be interesting to see what they do. There is no state in the country that can go to Mr. Trump if both the liberals/progressives AND the moderates in that state vote for the Democratic candidate.
Any claims that praise for Trump on the political stage indicate he is actually doing a good job fail immediately. Trump has made it clear, throughout his term, that he expects obeisance or there are consequences. International leaders have publicly. lavishly praised him and then been caught on mike ridiculing him or disparaging him privately. The parade of "thanks you for your leadership" from the vast majority of those who stand to speak with him in his news briefings is a testament to this dynamic. As I noted before, any leader worth their salt would have long since told co-speakers, "stop with the thanks to me - it's not about me! If you need to express gratitude, thank the people on the front lines and behind the scenes for making things happen." But Mr. Trump just stands there and nods gravely with each expression of obeisance. In fact, it IS all about him. He cannot get through a briefing without making a campaign pitch, or salting the briefing with sound bites normally used at his rallies. In fact, he has found a way to replace his rallies with multi-hour news briefings in which he is center stage.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostHow is Trump putting the world as risk?
Originally posted by seer View PostIn anyway to the degree that China did?
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd we live in a Federal system, states are generally responsible for the precautions they need to take. You can't lay that at Trump's door.
Originally posted by seer View PostOK so basically the leader of the WHO is lying... Got it...
If you'd like to call it lying - so be it. Technically, it is. Only a naive person would expect it to be otherwise, especially with someone like Mr. Trump who is narcissistic to the extreme AND wields great power.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Tass, it was China who put the world at risk!
World Health Organization director praises Trump's leadership in response to coronavirus pandemic
https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-...sSycsVFDAItbQA
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