I have gone around this issue a bit, and I still maintain that the definitions of natural and supernatural are so ambiguous as to be without meaning. Why can't a supernatural universe, for instance, be open to investigate with knowable laws and function? The problem is we have no way to compare these two ideas. Unlike with with most things we define, like a table or chair, there is no objective way to distinguish between supernatural and natural - it is a complete guess.
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Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Definitions: Natural Vs. Supernatural.
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Definitions: Natural Vs. Supernatural.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3sTags: None
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Originally posted by seer View PostI have gone around this issue a bit, and I still maintain that the definitions of natural and supernatural are so ambiguous as to be without meaning. Why can't a supernatural universe, for instance, be open to investigate with knowable laws and function? The problem is we have no way to compare these two ideas. Unlike with with most things we define, like a table or chair, there is no objective way to distinguish between supernatural and natural - it is a complete guess.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostIt's something I've seen taken up quite a bit on this forum. I believe Nick holds a similar view, and pre Enlightenment, there wasn't really a distinction. But I think the word "supernatural" is still useful if for nothing more than to distinguish between the processes of the natural world, and direct divine intervention in the natural world regardless of whether or not that divine intervention is purely through knowable laws of physics or some sort of mystical interaction. If you're using the word "supernatural" to mean something like "spiritual," or "divinity," then I think distinguishing between natural and supernatural is still useful in the sense that the natural explains those processes we can examine/investigate through natural means, whereas it seems it requires spiritual means to examine/investigate much of the spiritual realm.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostNatural in the sense that it can be perceived and examined by the physical senses I think.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNatural to me would be that which is created and sustained by natural forces (non-intelligent forces of nature).
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI guess it depends on who you're asking then. An atheist is obviously going to refuse the notion that "nature" has anything to do with a creator/sustainer. And since most people in the sciences and philosophy disassociate their fields from the religious, you're probably going to be talking past people who use non-religious language to describe ordinary phenomena.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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I think a theist could say "natural" means something like "consistent with the way things normally operate according to the laws of nature God has created". This leaves plenty of room for miracles and doesn't risk heading into the territory of deism. I think Christians who argue there is no distinction between natural and supernatural are promoting a position that they know deep down is indefensible."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut that is my point Adrift - they have no objective justification for their position. The distinction is arbitrary, philosophical.
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Originally posted by seer View PostI have gone around this issue a bit, and I still maintain that the definitions of natural and supernatural are so ambiguous as to be without meaning. Why can't a supernatural universe, for instance, be open to investigate with knowable laws and function? The problem is we have no way to compare these two ideas. Unlike with with most things we define, like a table or chair, there is no objective way to distinguish between supernatural and natural - it is a complete guess.
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Originally posted by seer View PostI have gone around this issue a bit, and I still maintain that the definitions of natural and supernatural are so ambiguous as to be without meaning. Why can't a supernatural universe, for instance, be open to investigate with knowable laws and function? The problem is we have no way to compare these two ideas. Unlike with with most things we define, like a table or chair, there is no objective way to distinguish between supernatural and natural - it is a complete guess.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostPerhaps if you look up the definitions of the two terms you might undersand the difference.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Tass, if you are not going to play well stay out of my thread...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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