Originally posted by Jim B.
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Are Thoughts Causal?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHave him imagine a chair. Then ask him to show you that chair in his head.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIt is the only and have not been tested by experiments nor
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, that is a simple, direct way of making the point. Which is obvious, there is a private first person experience that is not public, nor can it be.
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Originally posted by Jim B. View PostTassman is probably not sophisticated enough to argue this, but guys like Dennett might say that it only seems private for now, but when neuroscience is complete, nothing will be private in principle.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Jim B. View PostBut you're assuming once again that your interpretation is the only possible way of looking at things. You're assuming that empirical validation is the only possible type of epistemic validation.You can hide behind the authority of science all you want, but if you don't know how to think, it avails you not in the slightest.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThis as opposed to YOUR philosophical epistemic validations believed to be and
You look really silly when you use metaphysical arguments to 'demonstrate' that metaphysical arguments can't demonstrate anything. And when that's pointed out to you, you just double down on your foolishness. Don't ever go to a casino, OK?...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNo, I use the scientific method to examine such arguments.
Great. Cite the scientific experiment that demonstrates that 'metaphysical arguments cannot validate or invalidate commonly accepted subjective beliefs'. I expect links to published, peer-reviewed papers by credentialled scientists.
Note your claim was not 'it can be shown that X', but that 'We know that X'. Therefore there must be scientific papers already out there to support that. I want to know what apparatus was used, what physical material was tested and how, how the results were measured, what the physical parameters of the experiment were - all the ordinary things we find in real science experiments that give us your beloved empirically verifiable knowledge....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Tassmanacademic arguments which cannot demonstrate anything for certain.
Therefore your own position (asserting metaphysical claims about the ineffectiveness of metaphysics to give any knowledge) is self-refuting.
If true, it undercuts itself by removing the basis for accepting it as true, ergo it can be ignored as a piece of nonsense. You really should be smarter than this. But you're not.
It's atheists like you that give me confidence in the rare moments when I doubt God....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostOnly information that can be tested and shown to be factually true is sound.
Whiffed again... still no scientific demonstration of your claims about knowledge, ergo the claims themselves are not knowledge.
You're still caught in the same problem. Your criteria for knowledge eliminates the criteria itself as a piece of knowledge.
See the bolded above for an example. According to your criteria, you have to be able to 'test and show to be factually true' (whatever that actually means) that statement itself for it to be sound information. Since that statement itself can't be tested scientifically or "validated via experiment and testing" it is not actual knowledge (according to you), but rather "based on personal opinion, religious beliefs, interpretation, emotions and judgment." Ergo it's NOT knowledge, and is just "subjective", thus true for you but not necessarily for me, and therefore can't you even in principle insist on anyone else accepting it as a standard for knowledge.
In short, the information that "Only information that can be tested and shown to be factually true is sound." itself is not sound by it's own standard. So it's not sound information. So who cares?
The most you can say to a metaphysical argument given your own criteria is 'Duh, well I'm not convinced' - and so what? That just means YOU don't like it, or agree with it. It doesn't mean that it's false, or that it doesn't give us real knowledge about reality....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
The most you can say to a metaphysical argument given your own criteria is 'Duh, well I'm not convinced' - and so what? That just means YOU don't like it, or agree with it. It doesn't mean that it's false, or that it doesn't give us real knowledge about reality.
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Dodge. Since your scientism has been shown to be self-refuting, it's off the table. What do YOU propose to put in it's place? You are the one with the problem: an epistemology that is self-falsifying.
We can evaluate arguments the same way we evaluate all arguments: check that they are logically valid; and then make an assessment of the premise and the evidence for them. But that's not the problem you have....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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