Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

[JimL]

exactly what I said.

I don't think you have any idea what you mean by that. What do you think the mental, or spiritual world is? Do you think it is a great big mind that the physical world exists within, or what?

[Tassman]

and this immaterial mind can make decisions and control the physical body through the brain. the brain is an interface between the mind and body.

No, the brain IS the mind.

[Sparko]

No, the brain IS the mind.

I can show you of a picture of a brain without a mind.

A brain can exist without the mind therefore the brain is not the mind.

[JonathanL]

No, the brain IS the mind.

This is demonstrably false. A brain (and brain activity) can be observed and studied by anyone (with the right equipment), a mind is a subjective thing that is only accessible to the one who has it. They are obviously not the same thing.

[JimL]

I can show you of a picture of a brain without a mind.

A brain can exist without the mind therefore the brain is not the mind.

The mind can't exist without the brain therefore the mind is the brain.

[JonathanL]

The mind can't exist without the brain . . .

I don't see any reason at all to accept that claim.

[Tassman]

I don't see any reason at all to accept that claim.

other than the brain. There is no substantive evidence for this notion. "Besides, the notorious problems with the supposed transactions at the dualistic interface between the immaterial mind/soul and the material brain are as good as a reductio ad absurdum of the view"...Dennett paraphrase.

[Sparko]

The mind can't exist without the brain therefore the mind is the brain.

That is like saying the light is the lightbulb.

The light can't exist without the lightbulb, but the bulb can be turned off and still be a lightbulb. So clearly the lightbulb and light are not the same thing. And light is not a physical thing either while a lightbulb is. So even in your materialist outlook the mind is not the brain nor is it physical.

[JimL]

That is like saying the light is the lightbulb.

The light can't exist without the lightbulb, but the bulb can be turned off and still be a lightbulb. So clearly the lightbulb and light are not the same thing. And light is not a physical thing either while a lightbulb is. So even in your materialist outlook the mind is not the brain nor is it physical.

No, though it sounds good, that's a poor analogy, Sparko. The light bulb is merely a medium that converts already existing electrical energy into light energy. And btw, light is physical. Unlike light, there is no evidence that mental entities exist apart from the physical brain.

[JimL]

I don't see any reason at all to accept that claim.

And you don't have to accept it, but there is no evidence to the contrary.

[JonathanL]

other than the brain.

Except that even the most cursory analysis of the different properties of the mind and of the brain pretty clearly demonstrates that the brain and the mind is not identical, at all. In fact, I would even go as far as to say that not even the brain activity itself is identical with the mind. To demonstrate otherwise you'd have to show that there's a one-to-one correspondence between either the properties of the mind and the properties of the brain, or the properties of the mind and the properties of your neurological activity.

[JonathanL]

And you don't have to accept it, but there is no evidence to the contrary.

We don't have any evidence that mind's can't exist without a brain, so there's no reason to adopt that belief over it's opposite either.

[Sparko]

No, though it sounds good, that's a poor analogy, Sparko. The light bulb is merely a medium that converts already existing electrical energy into light energy. And btw, light is physical. Unlike light, there is no evidence that mental entities exist apart from the physical brain.

Light is energy, not material JimL. It is not physical in the sense you are using it.

The bulb generates light. Don't you believe the brain generates the mind?

[JimL]

We don't have any evidence that mind's can't exist without a brain, so there's no reason to adopt that belief over it's opposite either.

Yes we do, there is plenty of evidence of existing physical brain/minds, but there is no evidence of immaterial brainless minds. Mindless brains, maybe, but no brainless minds.

[Sparko]

Yes we do, there is plenty of evidence of existing physical brain/minds, but there is no evidence of immaterial brainless minds. Mindless brains, maybe, but no brainless minds.

Jim, explain what you mean by "mind"? what is a mind?