Interaction Problem Involving the Soul and Body

[shunyadragon]

Ok so outcomes are random. So did evolution itself have to happen? Or is that random too?

OK?!?!?! So . . . No. Get some education in basic math, English and science, and respond coherently without a religious agenda.

[seer]

OK?!?!?! So . . . No. Get some education in basic math, English and science, and respond coherently without a religious agenda.

So Shuny, tell me exactly where I was off. Did any creature have to develop the way it did or at all? Did the evolutionary process have to happen?

[shunyadragon]

So Shuny, tell me exactly where I was off. Did any creature have to develop the way it did or at all? Did the evolutionary process have to happen?

All of the above.

The outcome of individual events may be described as random, but constrained by Natural Law and the environment. The outcome of sum of the individual outcomes called evolution is not random, and controlled by Natural Law and the environment. In any given environment all outcomes will be similar adapted to the environment.

The odd expression 'had to happen' is layman's demand based on your agenda. Anything that happens only happens within the constraints of the Laws of Nature and the environment. In any given suitable environment for evolution the outcome will be the abiogenesis and evolution of life and species within a range determined by the Laws of Nature and the natural environment.

[Tassman]

So Shuny, tell me exactly where I was off. Did any creature have to develop the way it did or at all? Did the evolutionary process have to happen?

The evolutionary process did not "have to happen" (whatever that means). But it did happen, and we understand how it happened, namely as naturally occurring responses to the changing environment

[JohnHermes]

"A careful examination will show that what we call "Chance" is merely an expression relating to obscure causes; causes that we cannot perceive; causes that we cannot understand. The word Chance is derived from a word Meaning "to fall" (as the falling of dice), the idea being that the fall of the dice (and many other happenings) are merely a "happening" unrelated to any cause. And this is the sense in which the term is generally employed. But when the matter is closely examined, it is seen that there is no chance whatsoever about the fall of the dice. Each time a die falls, and displays a certain number, it obeys a law as infallible as that which governs the revolution of the planets around the sun. Back of the fall of the die are causes, or chains of causes, running back further than the mind can follow. The position of the die in the box; the amount of muscular energy expended in the throw; the condition of the table, etc., etc., all are causes, the effect of which may be seen. But back of these seen causes there are chains of unseen preceding causes, all of which had a bearing upon the number of the die which fell uppermost." - The Kybalion

It looks "random" but it's definitely not. There's a basic underlying pattern that seems to give rise to chaotic "randomness".

[seer]

All of the above.

The outcome of individual events may be described as random, but constrained by Natural Law and the environment. The outcome of sum of the individual outcomes called evolution is not random, and controlled by Natural Law and the environment. In any given environment all outcomes will be similar adapted to the environment.

Good, so outcomes of individual events are random.

The odd expression 'had to happen' is layman's demand based on your agenda. Anything that happens only happens within the constraints of the Laws of Nature and the environment. In any given suitable environment for evolution the outcome will be the abiogenesis and evolution of life and species within a range determined by the Laws of Nature and the natural environment.

Again Shuny, did the evolutionary process have to happen in the first place? Of course not, so that is by chance too.

[shunyadragon]

Good, so outcomes of individual events are random.

. . . but the outcomes are constrained by the Laws of Nature, and the natural environment.

Again Shuny, did the evolutionary process have to happen in the first place? Of course not, so that is by chance too.

Again, all your assumptions are an illusion of delusions based on a religious agenda, and have no relevant meaning in the science of evolution.

Given the Laws of Nature, and a suitable environment for life there is no reason to believe abiogenesis and evolution will not take place.

Your argument is based on the perpetual motion machine of arguing from ignorance. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you reject science in favor of fundamentalist religious agenda. There is not much in the way of constructive dialogue can take place.

[seer]

. . . but the outcomes are constrained by the Laws of Nature, and the natural environment.

But that doesn't change the random outcomes. We are a random outcome.

Again, all your assumptions are an illusion of delusions based on a religious agenda, and have no relevant meaning in the science of evolution.

Given the Laws of Nature, and a suitable environment for life there is no reason to believe abiogenesis and evolution will not take place.

Your argument is based on the perpetual motion machine of arguing from ignorance. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you reject science in favor of fundamentalist religious agenda. There is not much in the way of constructive dialogue can take place.

That is false Shuny, first we have no idea how or why life started on this earth. Second, there is noting in the laws of nature that determined that life would actually begin on this earth. Chance...

[shunyadragon]

But that doesn't change the random outcomes. We are a random outcome.

No we are not. We are the outcome of the Laws of Nature and the environment based on the objective verifiable evidence. Your view is based on religious assumptions with no evidence.

[seer]

No we are not. We are the outcome of the Laws of Nature and the environment based on the objective verifiable evidence. Your view is based on religious assumptions with no evidence.

Wait, you just admitted that individual outcomes are random. And we are an individual outcome. You already agreed that we did not have to evolve as we did or evolve at all.

[Tassman]

But that doesn't change the random outcomes. We are a random outcome.

No, we are the naturally occurring evolutionary response to a suitable environment.

That is false Shuny, first we have no idea how or why life started on this earth. Second, there is noting in the laws of nature that determined that life would actually begin on this earth. Chance...

[shunyadragon]

Wait, you just admitted that individual outcomes are random. And we are an individual outcome.

No, we are not an individual outcome. An individual out come would be one genetic mutation constrained by the Laws of Nature.

You already agreed that we did not have to evolve as we did or evolve at all.

No, you are injecting a 'have to' here, which has no meaning concerning the reality of evolution in response to a changing environment.

[seer]

No, we are not an individual outcome. An individual out come would be one genetic mutation constrained by the Laws of Nature.

What are you talking about? You agree that man did not have to evolve as we did or all. So that means randomness was involved, it was not deterministic.

No, you are injecting a 'have to' here, which has no meaning concerning the reality of evolution in response to a changing environment.

If we were not determined by that laws of nature to develop as we did then there was randomness involved. It could have been otherwise.

[shunyadragon]

What are you talking about? You agree that man did not have to evolve as we did or all. So that means randomness was involved, it was not deterministic.

No I did not.

If we were not determined by that laws of nature to develop as we did then there was randomness involved. It could have been otherwise.

Answer is BO. You are misquoting. Randomness is only involve in an event, and does not determine anything beyond the event where the outcome is constrained by the Laws of Nature. This true of virtually everything. The outcome of one roll of dis may be considered random, but the outcome of the rolls of dice are constrained by their physical nature and the Laws of Nature. Randomness plays no determining roll in evolution, other than simple the outcome of one event constrained by the Laws of Nature and the environment.

[Tassman]

What are you talking about? You agree that man did not have to evolve as we did or all. So that means randomness was involved, it was not deterministic.

For the umpteenth time, hominids (and all life forms) are naturally occurring evolutionary responses to a suitable environment. They (we) did not "have" to evolve at all.