Originally posted by Sparko
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Origin of the Mind/Mental States
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIt doesn't observe. In order to observe something has to have reasoning capability. A jellyfish just reacts. There is no awareness or observation going on. Seeing is not observing. Observing requires a mental component.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostSo can I. Again: "Reasoning" is the active component of passive awareness. The awareness must come first". Note shunya's example of the jelly fish above. It can be aware of light but it is unable to "reason" about it.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf reasoning is the active component in awareness, then reasoning has to come first. You have to have the ability to reason before you can be aware of anything. The jellyfish is not aware of anything. It simply reacts to light like a program. It has no brain.
Awareness must come first. Unless one is aware of something then one cannot reason about it. Even jellyfish, although without a brain, have simple sensory organs that allow for awareness of light and smell etc. They cannot reason about what they are sensing, but they are aware of it.
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Originally posted by Tassman View Post...and on and on it goes.
Awareness must come first. Unless one is aware of something then one cannot reason about it. Even jellyfish, although without a brain, have simple sensory organs that allow for awareness of light and smell etc. They cannot reason about what they are sensing, but they are aware of it.
I am starting to think that is the same problem you are having.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey are not aware of anything. Just like you said a camera is not aware of what it is seeing. A Jellyfish has no awareness because it has no brain.
I am starting to think that is the same problem you are having.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe fact thqat the Jellyfish does not have a brain is the key, as well as other animals with eyes an no brain. They are 'aware' of their surroundings and respond to that awareness, but have no brain to reason based on their awareness.
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reflexes are not awareness. They occur without awareness, that is why they are called reflexes. The motor nerves are connected directly to the sensory nerves. It is hardwired. Awareness requires NOTICING your surrounding and that requires being conscious.
Take a basic biology class Tassman.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey are no more aware than a photocell connected to a relay is aware Shuny. It is just a wired reaction.Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-25-2019, 01:04 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post. . . but they are aware and react. A photo cell does not react to the light on its own.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey are not aware. A photocell can be wired to a relay so that when light hits it, the relay trips. The jellyfish's nervous system does the same thing. It is not aware of anything. It is a built-in reflex/instinct. hard wired.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postreflexes are not awareness. They occur without awareness, that is why they are called reflexes. The motor nerves are connected directly to the sensory nerves. It is hardwired. Awareness requires NOTICING your surrounding and that requires being conscious.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postreflexes are not awareness. They occur without awareness, that is why they are called reflexes. The motor nerves are connected directly to the sensory nerves. It is hardwired. Awareness requires NOTICING your surrounding and that requires being conscious.
Take a basic biology class Tassman.Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-26-2019, 02:59 PM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey are not aware. A photocell can be wired to a relay so that when light hits it, the relay trips. The jellyfish's nervous system does the same thing. It is not aware of anything. It is a built-in reflex/instinct. hard wired.
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