Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Atheism And Moral Progress
Collapse
X
-
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI think you're being extremely selective in your interpretation and application of definitions.
Of that I am very aware...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostReally? Reference means reference, that is not about acting or not. You seem to want to link it to free will.
The two positions are inconsistent. If you cannot see this...
Originally posted by seer View PostRight because there is no problem,,,The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSeer, when the "problem of evil" is discussed, the primary defense for the existence of moral evil is that god MUST give humans the will to freely choose between good actions and bad. If this god did not, then humans would simply be moral robots and the idea of moral goodness would simply evaporate. This is why evil exists - so say the theists. But now, when it comes to god himself, there is no contradiction in saying that god is incapable of choosing an evil moral action - yet god is a good moral agent.
The two positions are inconsistent. If you cannot see this...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by seer View Post
Not in the least. God's moral nature is immutable, yet He finds a freely given love/response to be of great value. Nothing inconsistent here...
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View Postseer, give it up. You lost the argument with the claim that god has no choice, morally speaking.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostCarp, this does not change that fact that God always does good, and goodness is a moral quality, whether God could do otherwise or not. And God gave men freedom so that they could choose (or not) to love Him. Obedience (doing what is morally right) certainly plays a part, but the interchange of love is of the utmost importance. It seems that God puts a premium on a love that is freely given rather than a robotic response.
Not in the least. God's moral nature is immutable, yet He finds a freely given love/response to be of great value. Nothing inconsistent here...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAs you wish, Seer. In my experience - you cannot reason against an unreasonable position, so I'll move on.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostCarp what is unreasonable about this statement:God's moral nature is immutable, yet He finds a freely given love/response to be of great value. I really don't get it...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI know you don't Seer. I don't think I'm going to be able to explain it to you in a way that will penetrate. I've already attempted to several times, and if I try again I'll just be repeating myself. Perhaps someone else can find the right words. It's not an urgent issue, and you are certainly welcome to your beliefs.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostCarp what is unreasonable about this statement:God's moral nature is immutable, yet He finds a freely given love/response to be of great value. I really don't get it...
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostIt's a contradiction seer, that's why it defies logic. You're trying to have it both ways. If god is unable to freely choose to do wrong, if, by nature, god is determined to do right, then there is nothing moral about the choices he makes, because he has no option. You are also creating god in your own imagination in order to satisfy your own expectations of him. "God is determined with respect to this, but he is free with respect to that."Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostJim, that does not follow. If God judges you and sends you to that bad place, or forgives and pardons you, then these are moral acts that will effect you. He has acted morally. And again, I am going by what Scripture states, God's moral nature can not change but there is nothing that suggests that He can not act freely in other areas. Like what to create, whether to create at all, when to do a miracle, when not to, etc... There is no contradiction here, that is a mere assertion on your part.
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI know you don't Seer. I don't think I'm going to be able to explain it to you in a way that will penetrate. I've already attempted to several times, and if I try again I'll just be repeating myself. Perhaps someone else can find the right words. It's not an urgent issue, and you are certainly welcome to your beliefs.
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSeer, when the "problem of evil" is discussed, the primary defense for the existence of moral evil is that god MUST give humans the will to freely choose between good actions and bad. If this god did not, then humans would simply be moral robots and the idea of moral goodness would simply evaporate. This is why evil exists - so say the theists. But now, when it comes to god himself, there is no contradiction in saying that god is incapable of choosing an evil moral action - yet god is a good moral agent.
The two positions are inconsistent. If you cannot see this...
If you murder someone and had the ability to refrain from the act, you're morally culpable. If you were completely unable to stop yourself you were not morally culpable. But in both cases what you did was an act that had moral aspects. In both cases a morally evil event took place.
Again, being a moral being does not require free will. Being able to freely choose is required for moral culpability.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by shunyadragon, 03-01-2024, 09:40 AM
|
173 responses
649 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by shunyadragon
06-07-2024, 07:30 AM
|
Comment