Originally posted by Tassman
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Atheism And Moral Progress
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostMorals are based on human reason and are relative to ourselves, yes, not on some unknown objective and arbitrary standard.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo if the majority uses their human reason to take advantage of the minority for their benefit then that is a good.
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell they are wrong and I am right.
What do you have concerning moral questions but your say so?Last edited by Tassman; 09-03-2018, 12:52 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNope, as you have admitted yourself, abusing others doesn't make for a peaceful society seer. Abused minorities will always rise up which is why the adage "Do unto others........Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhat I've got "concerning moral questions" are the universal ethical principles commonly held by most people in our community and culture. Same as you, minus the irrelevant god bit.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim you are not getting the point, why is a peaceful society a moral good? It is a moral good because we who PREFER a peaceful society SAY SO.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, you are not getting the point, seer. A peaceful society is a moral good because that is ultimately what morals are all about, i.e. the good of the people. In other words, morals have a relative purpose to human beings, they serve to promote the best interests of people, their lives, their survival. Morality for you, on the other hand , serves no purpose to humanity, it's simply the arbitrary law of a god. If I ask you the same question, you will answer it's moral simply because "god says so." Actually it's kind of a silly question if you stop and think about it. "why is a peaceful society good?" Think about it!Last edited by seer; 09-03-2018, 12:46 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim why is our survival a moral good.
Please give a direct answer that does not rely on your or our subjective say so...
And the law of God is not arbitrary, it is grounded in His immutable moral character and includes those things that lead to a peaceful society like the love of neighbor and the golden rule.
Your belief supports the killing of millions of unborn children.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBecause that is what is meant by "good." Good, morally speaking, are those behaviors which are in the best interests of human beings, and it is in our best interests, both as individuals and by extension as a community of individuals to survive and to live in peace with one another. Of course survival is a subjective good, that's why you want to survive eternally. But it isn't survival that we are talking about, we're talking about the moral laws that serve to facilitate our continued survival, our peaceful existence. It's the laws themselves that are objectively "good" or "bad," and that which defines them as such is whether or not they ultimately serve the best interests of human beings living together in community.
Seer, god is not necessary in order that we establish moral rules which serve the purpose of creating a peaceful society. We don't need god in order to establish and follow the golden rule. And that is the argument that you have been continuously denying. The fact that the moral laws work, that they serve our best interests as a community is what matters, not where they come from.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostPreferably the universal ethical principles of the secular nations that rank at the top of the Human Development and Happiness Indices. Christians have held just as many diverse views towards morality and governance through time.
That is a bold faced lie Tass, for instance I made clear on the issue of homosexuality the Biblical texts are quite clear. No interpretation is needed. And that those who are Biblically literate fall on my side of the debate, it is the Biblically illiterate who disagree.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight believing that our survival is a moral good is based on say so. Which means that what supports that survival is also based on say so. You have a particular idea what a peaceful society should look like, the ruling Communist Chinese or North Koreans another. I mean in your "peaceful" society it is perfectly fine to kill millions of our own offspring in the womb.
Perhaps Jim, people need to believe in a god and universal moral truths to be good, or try to be good. Perhaps your moral relativism does not give men (generally) the ethical unction necessary to act correctly.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI'm sure seer that there are many immature fearful people out there who do need an authoritarian figure offering them rewards and threatening punishments in order that they behave like ethical citizens of society and thats why we created gods.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostMorality is summed up in the adage "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That wouldn't make any sense if morality weren't defined in terms of society. And I agree, morals are not right because most people agree they are right, morals are right because they serve the best interests of the whole of society within the which those people live.
And you still are trying to link morality to a non-existent absolute or objective metric. "What is beneficial to society" is not something that can be objectively measured, because it will depend on what the individual making the assessment values most. Most of us value life above all, so we have a prohibition against random or even most forms of targeted killing. But someone may look at the current population, the strain on natural resources, the degree of poverty and starvation, and conclude that society would be benefited if we simply eliminated all those not "adequately" contributing - perhaps up to 50% of the overall population (depending on what constitutes "adequately"). Most of us would look in horror at such a concept, and act to restrict that person from carrying out that moral framework. But for them, it would be a "good" that is for the "benefit of society."
There is no such thing as an absolute or objective "benefit of society" metric. It will differ (to some degree) person to person.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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