Originally posted by seer
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Atheism And Moral Progress
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, let me try again - why is the best interests of society is a moral good? If it is not our "say so" then what is it?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou are apparently going to keep on contradicting yourself. You said that if people followed the golden rule we would have heaven on earth. Now you know I'm not religious, but that is my argument seer, that is the point of morality, what is "good" is not just say so it is the empirical results of enforced moral law. And if the morals have the effect you say they do, then they need have nothing to do with being objectively divine. The moral against murder, theft, rape, et etc. is good simply because it proves to be beneficial to human society, or as you yourself put it, to have heaven on earth.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWe are living organisms, and like ALL living organisms our primary instinct is survival. This is neither 'good' nor 'bad', it just "is". "Morality" is not an entity that exits of itself and for itself...or to just keep a deity happy. Morality is merely a code of behaviour...a set of rules. What we consider "good" are those rules that best enable our survival as individuals and as a species and "bad" is behaviour that is detrimental to survival. 'Acceptable' and 'non acceptable' behaviour has always been part of the human condition...long before any gods were around.
Because human beings share a significant degree of commonality, we tend to value similarly, so there is tremendous cohesion to our moral frameworks. That cohesion then gets expressed in communal moral norms, and even our legal system.
It's not really complicated. But we do live in a world that has clung to "god-centered" morality for a long long time. It's a habit that will be VERY hard to break.
Maybe I should write a book! "Common Sense Morality"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostMoralizing is a natural consequence of sentience. As soon as we can reflect on ourselves, we can reflect on our actions and choices as well. As soon as we can do that, we will begin to sort them into "ought" and "ought not." We ought to do those actions that nurture/enhance/foster the things we value, and we ought not do the things that diminish/destroy/threaten the things we value. That sorting is on a continuum from the things we value most to the things we value least. We reserve the term "morality" for those things on the upper end of that scale.
Because human beings share a significant degree of commonality, we tend to value similarly, so there is tremendous cohesion to our moral frameworks. That cohesion then gets expressed in communal moral norms, and even our legal system.
It's not really complicated. But we do live in a world that has clung to "god-centered" morality for a long long time. It's a habit that will be VERY hard to break.
Maybe I should write a book! "Common Sense Morality"
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostMoralizing is a natural consequence of sentience. As soon as we can reflect on ourselves, we can reflect on our actions and choices as well. As soon as we can do that, we will begin to sort them into "ought" and "ought not." We ought to do those actions that nurture/enhance/foster the things we value, and we ought not do the things that diminish/destroy/threaten the things we value. That sorting is on a continuum from the things we value most to the things we value least. We reserve the term "morality" for those things on the upper end of that scale.
Because human beings share a significant degree of commonality, we tend to value similarly, so there is tremendous cohesion to our moral frameworks. That cohesion then gets expressed in communal moral norms, and even our legal system.
It's not really complicated. But we do live in a world that has clung to "god-centered" morality for a long long time. It's a habit that will be VERY hard to break.
Maybe I should write a book! "Common Sense Morality"Last edited by Tassman; 08-28-2018, 12:26 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe point is that there is no need of a god, or of morals to have an objective existence, in order that, as laws, they serve to benefit society as a whole. That's what seer can't seem to grasp.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe point is that there is no need of a god, or of morals to have an objective existence, in order that, as laws, they serve to benefit society as a whole. That's what seer can't seem to grasp.
Currently it appears our society thinks it is good to abort babies. But just 50 years ago we thought that was completely immoral and bad for society.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostCurrently it appears our society thinks it is good to abort babies. But just 50 years ago we thought that was completely immoral and bad for society.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by SparkoPS did you know that the very word "Good" comes from "God?"Originally posted by Sparko View Post"Sense of "kind, benevolent" is from late Old English in reference to persons or God, from mid-14c. of actions."
You are propagating a lie.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIf single moms stay at home and take care of their child, will you pay taxes to support her and the child that you care so much for as a fetus?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo killing our unborn by the millions is good for society? And a single mom can already get welfare, I know, a number of them live in my neighborhood.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIf single moms stay at home and take care of their child, will you pay taxes to support her and the child that you care so much for as a fetus?
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