Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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The Philosophy Of Infanticide
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See there you go again, no scientific, undeniable, point where personhood begins. Only subjective, arbitrary definitions.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSee there you go again, no scientific, undeniable, point where personhood begins. Only subjective, arbitrary definitions.Last edited by Tassman; 06-09-2018, 04:26 AM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBut what we think now is only for us right? Who are we to judge past societies? So it was not actually wrong for them to burn witches back then was it? In fact, it was moral since that society believed it was.
Just like it was moral for Hitler to gas Jews because that society believed it was moral.
If morals are just a group consensus by various societies, then there are no "universal ethical principals"
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Originally posted by Tassman View Post'Personhood' is a legal concept, not a scientific one. There are several appropriate options that are scientifically determined, e.g. conception, fetal viability or birth. Why focus on the moment of conception?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBecause we know human life like begins at conception, it is not arbitrary and does not depend on subjective definitions of "personhood."
And when speaking of human life should we not err on the side of caution, on the side of life?
Even in your atheistic worldview killing our own offspring can not be a good evolutionary strategy.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostBecause we are socialised during out formative years and acculturated by the community in which we live, to behave in a way that is acceptable to that society...whether it be a secular society or a theist society.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostSo I ought to follow "universal ethical principles" because I am socialized and acculturated by the community to behave in a way that is acceptable to that society?
So should I engage in the killing and pillaging a group of people if I am socialized and acculturated by the community to behave in that way (which, in this context, is acceptable to that society)?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJudging by what the UK just did recently to two babies, Charlie Gard and Alfie Evans, they not only support infanticide, but practice it.
Starlight must be proud.
Maybe we can extend the idea of 'moral status as nonpersons' to include prochoice nutjobs who support infanticide? They can't be human."Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona
I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe burning of witches was grounded in the supposedly universal moral values of the bible. But, as always, the biblical interpretation was based on prior beliefs, presuppositions, worldviews, and the like which inevitably shape biblical interpretation. But the universal ethical principles that are commonly held by most people, groups, and cultures nowadays are best embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
And just 50 years ago we had a society that said Jews were not people and it was OK to destroy them. Perfectly moral in your world.
Just because you personally think the best morals are "embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." doesn't actually make them the best. Some other society could disagree, or heck, 10 years from now, this same society could disagree.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYes, human life like begins at conception, fetal viability begins at around 23 weeks and independent life begin at birth. None of these things are arbitrary.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhy do you consider a baby which is born, a person? It can't think, speak, feed itself, or even help messing itself. Dogs are smarter. So why is that baby a person in your eyes?
The reason is that the baby is still underdeveloped but could not go through the birth canal if it was born when it was "ready".
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBirth is a change of location. There is no difference between the baby 30 seconds earlier and after birth.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBut then as you said, back then the universal ethical principals were not the same as today, so using your definition, it was perfectly moral for them to burn witches, stone women for infidelity, treat women like property in general, right?
And just 50 years ago we had a society that said Jews were not people and it was OK to destroy them. Perfectly moral in your world.Just because you personally think the best morals are "embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights." doesn't actually make them the best. Some other society could disagree, or heck, 10 years from now, this same society could disagree.
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