In the classical cosmological argument it disallows an infinite series of cause and effect of a never ending series of beginnings and endings with no first beginning.
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Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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An infinite series of finite causes.
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An infinite series of finite causes.
. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJVTags: None
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostIn the classical cosmological argument it disallows an infinite series of cause and effect of a never ending series of beginnings and endings with no first beginning.
But be prepared for Shuny to come in with some mystically unintelligible koan that's off the topic, with an irrelevant block-quote to boot.Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
George Horne
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Two facts. Our current scientific knowledge and evidence cannot support possibility of an infinite past with no beginning. And theologically it is not supported (Genesis 1:1; Psalm 102:25-26; Revelation 20:11; Revelation 21:1).
Now even if, those two facts were not true, an infinite series of cause and effect with no first cause - there would have to be an uncaused existence - and an uncaused cause (reason) for such an eternal event (series).
Yet the theological fact (being true) disallows such a series to explain our known universe.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostIn the classical cosmological argument it disallows an infinite series of cause and effect of a never ending series of beginnings and endings with no first beginning.
Now even if, those two facts were not true, an infinite series of cause and effect with no first cause - there would have to be an uncaused existence - and an uncaused cause (reason) for such an eternal event (series).
Yet the theological fact (being true) disallows such a series to explain our known universe.
Contemporary Cosmology considers the physical existence as potentially infinite.
Theological 'beliefs' are not facts, and they cannot be used to explain the known universe.Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-21-2018, 01:14 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWhat are you calling classical cosmology?
Contemporary Cosmology considers the physical existence as potentially infinite.
Theological 'beliefs' are not facts, and they cannot be used to explain the known universe.
Watch out 37818? Shuny is about to spit out his baseless talking points and go on a block-quote rampage!Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
George Horne
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Originally posted by mattbballman31 View PostHe didn't say 'classical cosmology, dummy. Your English-reading skills stink. He said 'classic cosmological . . ." Get the difference, dummy?
Watch out 37818? Shuny is about to spit out his baseless talking points and go on a block-quote rampage!
the classic cosmological argument would have to make certain cosmological assumptions. What are they? They would not based on science.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Postthe classic cosmological argument would have to make certain cosmological assumptions. What are they? They would not based on science.
And sometimes the a priori premises involved don't need to be based on science. Have you jumped on the scientism-bandwagon as well? (-_-)Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
George Horne
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWhat are you calling classical cosmology?
Contemporary Cosmology considers the physical existence as potentially infinite.
Theological 'beliefs' are not facts, and they cannot be used to explain the known universe.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Last edited by mattbballman31; 02-22-2018, 08:00 PM.Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
George Horne
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostLook up the cosmological argument for there being God.Last edited by Tassman; 02-22-2018, 10:32 PM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe argument from first cause (i.e. the cosmological argument) claims that the universe must have a cause, and that this cause is posited to be God. This is a classic Argument from Ignorance.
There is no substantive evidence supporting the premise that universe must have a cause.
This is an unverified assumption and especially specious given that contemporary physics considers that physical existence is possibly infinite.
Still running away from my questions?
Oh, and prove that contemporary physics considers physical existence possibly infinite, please.Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
George Horne
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Originally posted by mattbballman31 View PostDo you even know what the Argument from Ignorance is? X is true because X hasn't been proven false. How in the name of Zeus' chest muscles is this an Argument from Ignorance?
Prove it. [that universe must have a cause.]Last edited by Tassman; 02-23-2018, 04:19 AM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYOU are the one promoting the Cosmological Argument so YOU prove the unsubstantiated premise that the universe must have a cause and is not infinite. You cannot show the assertion that "the universe must have a cause" to be true. Therefore the conclusion that the cause is God cannot be shown to be true.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by mattbballman31 View PostDo you even know what the Argument from Ignorance is? X is true because X hasn't been proven false. How in the name of Zeus' chest muscles is this an Argument from Ignorance?
Prove it.
More Tass Nye the Scientism Guy! Tass, Tass, Tass, Tass, Tass . . . . Scientism rules!
Still running away from my questions?
Oh, and prove that contemporary physics considers physical existence possibly infinite, please.
Scientist do not prove anything, and whether our physical existence is infinite, eternal, finite nor temporal cannot by falsified by a scientific hypothesis, but . . .
The hypothesis for a cyclic universe has determined our physical existence is possibly endless.
Endless Universe
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
The hypothesis for a cyclic universe has determined our physical existence is possibly endless.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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