Originally posted by Tassman
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
What does it matter . . . ?
Collapse
X
-
. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostWhat else have you got?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat I am pointing out is knowledge is not knowledge unless one believes in it. And of course mere belief does not make anything true. But nevertheless unless a thing is believed it is not one's knowledge.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat I am pointing out is knowledge is not knowledge unless one believes in it. And of course mere belief does not make anything true. But nevertheless unless a thing is believed it is not one's knowledge.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostAll verifiable facts are a matter of faith in their verification.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostConfusing, but on the basis of this sounds like Hinduism.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostYou seem quite certain about what you say. I wonder if what seems to be your conclusion "But nevertheless unless a thing is believed it is not one's knowledge" is a faith statement or are you trying to say it is a matter of fact? If it is the former, we are free to have other beliefs. If it is the latter, you contradict yourself. So no matter if it is the former or the latter, we have no reason to think that what you are saying should be important.
Originally posted by Charles View PostAgain: Is this something you know or something you believe? You do note the irony of making a fact like claim when stating that no such thing exists in and of itself? And again if "facts" are based on faith in their verification how would you ever be able to have a rational discussion with someone having a different faith? And why would you hold that faith in the first place? No facts would exist prior to it, so nothing would seem to convince you.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostDo you believe what you say? Facts are never part of anyone's knowledge unless said facts are believed.
You do not know anything unless you believe it. And again, of course, the mere believing a thing does not in and of itself make what is believed to be true. A thing has to be true in order for it being believed to be true knowledge. Do you understand?
Try looking at what you claim: "You do not know anything unless[/B] you believe it." So in this case knowledge does not exist without belief. Then you go on to claim: "A thing has to be true in order for it being believed to be true knowledge." That statement does not make much sence since you just claimed we cannot have knowledge without belief. So then we have got no idea whether or not anything is true in and of itself, and thus we cannot determine whether what we believe is true knowledge is actually true, since truth does not exist independently of our knowledge according to you.
You are finding yourself in the same situation as the guy claiming that everything is relative without realising that the same goes for the statement he just claimed was a universal truth.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostAll verified facts that can be multiply tested is a matter of faith that they can be multiply tested. And faith in the tests used! Without faith no one knows anything.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostYou keep making statements about what truth is and you are making these claims as if you are pointing to universal truths that would go for all of us. That is not in line with what you tell us about truth in those statements that you present as facts.
Try looking at what you claim: "You do not know anything unless[/B] you believe it." So in this case knowledge does not exist without belief. Then you go on to claim: "A thing has to be true in order for it being believed to be true knowledge." That statement does not make much sence since you just claimed we cannot have knowledge without belief. So then we have got no idea whether or not anything is true in and of itself, and thus we cannot determine whether what we believe is true knowledge is actually true, since truth does not exist independently of our knowledge according to you.
You are finding yourself in the same situation as the guy claiming that everything is relative without realising that the same goes for the statement he just claimed was a universal truth.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostInformation and truth does not depend on belief to exist. But unless an individual believes said information or truth it is not the individual's knowledge. Truth is absolute and universal. A person's choice to believe is relative and not universal.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostInformation and truth does not depend on belief to exist. But unless an individual believes said information or truth it is not the individual's knowledge. Truth is absolute and universal. A person's choice to believe is relative and not universal.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostI think you are still messing a bit around with the categories. I do not have to believe in knowledge. Some basic knowledge is of such a sort that I can know it is true even if no one believes it and even if I would stop believing it (due to mental ilness or whatever) it would still be true. The basic logical truths belong in that category.
As I said, "Information and truth does not depend on belief to exist." Something can be true, and that does not depend on one believing. What I am arguing is, unless a thing is believed by one, it is not that one's knowledge. Information received has to be accepted, that is, believed. One has to believe what one is seeing, hearing or thinking for that matter. Who does not believe in one's own being? It is inherent that we have that basic belief. The fundamental knowledge of self - is believing one's own being.
My point, no one knows anything without believing it.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment