Originally posted by lee_merrill
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Objective Morality (Once More Into The Breach)
Collapse
X
-
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
-
Originally posted by seer View PostI generally agree that the law of God is grounded in His knowledge, but there is more - it is also grounded in His immutable moral character. By nature He is loving, truthful, just, etc...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostYour problem is that based to your line of reasoning any description you can use like "moral character" is based on ideas you claim follow from his own nature. So you are stuck in the "it is good because it is God's choice, nature or whatever" trap. The justification of the source is based upon the source itself. Circular, seer.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostCharles I made this point early on in our other debate and you have yet to respond with any good argument. Every definition of good is going to end up begging the question. Please offer a definition of good that is not based on circular reasoning.
Comment
-
Behavior is an objective act. That there is good behavior versus an evil behavior is also a matter of objective reality. Good behavior being mutually beneficial.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostIf there is no God then sanity is relative, there would not be an absolute standard.
And go back to my OP, I dealt with the math question there.
"1+1=2" is an abstract concept!
An abstract concept like love or sanity are different - they are completely dependent on a mind.
Blessings,
LeeLast edited by lee_merrill; 09-07-2017, 06:18 PM."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostOriginally posted by lee_merrill...though it would seem that moral truths are therefore objective, "love fulfils the law" is true regardless of whether anyone (including God) is actually loving.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostIf that is your point then why do you seem to get so angry everytime someone points to the fact that it is circular? Your definition is circular and thus it is not better or worse of than any other circular argument. Or is your subjective preference for one type of circular defintion better than another circular definition?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostYet the law is a real entity, considered by itself, "do not steal" is something that can be understood as a real proposition, apart from God, even.
Blessings,
LeeAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostSure there would, degrees of insanity could point to the concept of sanity, by extrapolation. Or by putting together pieces of sanity found in various insane people.
And I replied: "Yet the distance is an objective quantity, regardless of the units used to measure it."
"1+1=2" is an abstract concept!
But it is not dependent on a mind knowing "1+1=2".Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostHow can you have a moral law without a lawgiver?
But Lee you would still need a sane mind to piece all this together.
I'm not sure of your point, if there are no minds the abstract 1+1=2 does not exist.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostJust like you could have an arithmetic table without a table-giver.
Wouldn't a creature being born sane fit the bill? A sane mind could appear.
This is where I need you to give the evidence for your claim.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostLee, you can not have an arithmetic table without a mind first creating the table.
It would be sane compared to what? What standard would you use?
Well no Lee - we know that abstracts can exist in rational minds, it is up to you to show how they can exist without minds.
... if there are no minds the abstract 1+1=2 does not exist.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
-
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBut the arithmetic table was not created, it was discovered, mathematical truths yet to be discovered are nonetheless real, even if no one knows them yet, even if God (per impossible) did not know them yet.
It would be sane in and of itself, no standard of comparison would be needed, as in the color blue, which is itself, no standard needed.
Because we discover moral principles, they are not created, they are not arbitrary.
And even though abstracts can exist in rational minds, that does not prove this statement, I need to hear your evidence for this.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
seer explain why that 2 items and another 2 items make 4 items. The math symbolism aside. Explain why that or any self evident truth needs God to be true. If I was an atheist that would be one of the questions I would ask a theist. We are speaking of self evident truths Not just the math symbolism.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment