Originally posted by seer
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Human Dignity?
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by seer View PostNo Charles, we are speaking of inherent human dignity and worth. I said nature herself does not confer either, God could. If you know of something else that could confer such inherent worth, I would be happy to hear it. I can't think of anything.
It is possible that 'dignity and worth' evolved in humans with survival value as other attributes of self identity related to the needs of a family and community also found in primitive forms in primates and other intelligent mammals. It has been demonstrated that some primates mourn the loose of relatives giving value to the loose, recognize themselves in the mirror, and nurture and care for the young.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostWe have evolved as social creatures with instinctive notions of cooperation and mutual aid, sympathy and empathy, conflict resolution and peacemaking. We instinctively care about what others think about us. This is the basis of our ideals and notions of inherent dignity and worth...not the enslavement to a tyrannical, imaginary deity.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYes, dignity and worth are apparent in humans, but the assertion that it cannot be of natural origin is without basis. Your presenting an argument from the perspective of Intelligent Design, which is not sound science, and a claim of 'arguing from ignorance.'
It is possible that 'dignity and worth' evolved in humans with survival value as other attributes of self identity related to the needs of a family and community also found in primitive forms in primates and other intelligent mammals. It has been demonstrated that some primates mourn the loose of relatives giving value to the loose, recognize themselves in the mirror, and nurture and care for the young.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostI am speaking of inherent worth or dignity, not what we subjectively decide or not decide is worthy. And humans kill other humans, war and steal, rape, etc... So no, inherent worth is not possible with materialism, unless you can demonstrate otherwise.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostIt is not possible to base it in God. Make a deductive statement showing God provides dignity and I will show you why it does not apply. Deal?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostGod created us with an inherent purpose and worth - how is that impossible? I don't get your point. And please Charles stop asking for deductive arguments - you never provided one for any of your assertions. Do be a hypocrite.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostSo you cannot prove it? Good to know.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostOf course not, that is why I said "if" in my original post on this. But the fact remains, God can endow humanity with inherent worth and dignity - nature endows us with no such qualities.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostMake a deductive statement showing that God can endow human dignity and I will show you why it does not apply.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostIs there something wrong with you?
You might appeal to intuition: We know what we're talking about when we talk about 'dignity' and 'worth', but in a rational discussion you might actually have to make sense of these transcendentals.
They require quite a bit of explication, and its a bit beyond me frankly. I'd personally just refer people to the writings of Ed Feser, and others who take the Scholastic line of reasoning.Last edited by Leonhard; 08-02-2017, 11:33 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostIts an interesting question seer. God is almighty, so anything that can possible be obtained, anything that can real at all, He can obtain. However you've left dignity and worth undefined. You haven't explained how God is able to bestow this, namely, why anything can have dignity and worth at all. While I agree with you that the only way to explain these things is through theism, Charles is right to challenge you on making sense of these things. He is under no obligation to simple grant you those.
You might appeal to intuition: We know what we're talking about when we talk about 'dignity' and 'worth', but in a rational discussion you might actually have to make sense of these transcendentals.
They require quite a bit of explication, and its a bit beyond me frankly. I'd personally just refer people to the writings of Ed Feser, and others who take the Scholastic line of reasoning.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
-
-
Originally posted by Charles View PostAnd how would you proceed? So far I don't see how this proves we have dignity, or perhaps I misunderstood?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by shunyadragon, 03-01-2024, 09:40 AM
|
173 responses
635 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by shunyadragon
Yesterday, 07:30 AM
|
Comment