Originally posted by Charles
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Becoming the Right Person vs. Doing Right for Right Reasons
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd I suspect that you would reject my view of God based on moral grounds - correct? But since I am a Christian and my moral view of God comes from the teachings of Christ, His example and the New Testament in general. I would which of those teaching you would disagree with? The golden rule, to love our fellow man, to forgive our fellow man? Sexual Chasity outside of marriage? Admonishments to be honest and truthful? Not to be greedy? Not to steal? Go the extra mile to make peace with your neighbor? To help the poor? To be self-controlled?
I would not reject it solely on moral grounds, but it would be a significant part of it.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostOr eternal punishment in hell? Or the unworthy description of homosexuals?
I didn't take that position for emotional reasons or from my own personal ideas of fairness but I found that the idea of eternal conscious torment was surprisingly weak in Scripture.
I would not reject it solely on moral grounds, but it would be a significant part of it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Charles View PostNo, I read Mere Christianity.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThere is not a lot wrong with Mere, but if you want a more in depth look at his argument from reason I would suggest "Miracles."
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThanks for the suggestion. Currently I do not have much time for reading (unfortunately). So I will probably not go for Lewis, unless you can provide very good reason. Then, perhaps, I would consider.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhat else?
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI hardly know where to start, because I think so many reasons exist, and it would take a lot of words to describe it in a meaningful matter. But the fact that the Bible needs constant reinterpretation, that one reads Genesis differently after science has proven it wrong, that those who would stick to biblical claims have so often caused tremendous harm to others and to science only in order to humiliate themselves. That the Old Testament has is pro slavery, killing of homosexuals and other absurdities. That one gets the feeling of something rather antropromorph going on. That it seems to have no answer to the complex questions of modern day medicine, ethical problems and so on. I could go on for very long, this is a very short description of SOME of the ingredients.Last edited by seer; 06-26-2017, 10:49 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostReally, have you ever read Miracles? His arguments are not weak.
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd I suspect that you would reject my view of God based on moral grounds - correct? But since I am a Christian and my moral view of God comes from the teachings of Christ, His example and the New Testament in general. I would which of those teaching you would disagree with? The golden rule, to love our fellow man, to forgive our fellow man? Sexual Chasity outside of marriage? Admonishments to be honest and truthful? Not to be greedy? Not to steal? Go the extra mile to make peace with your neighbor? To help the poor? To be self-controlled?
Slavery, homosexuality, divorce, the subordination of women, marital rape, eternal punishment, obedience to authoritarian governments.
Moral issues the NT is a bit unclear about:
Non-violence, polygamy, sex before marriage, racial discrimination (as evidenced by the long history of racial discrimination in the Christian countries of USA and South Africa), interracial marriage
Moral issues the NT fails to speak to:
Torture, genocide, war crimes, human rights, animal rights, women's rights, abortion, contraceptives.
The NT does not really give substantially better moral teachings than the average random society in human history. You ask if we object to 'the golden rule', but you realize that the golden rule is famous for being found in a large number of different societies right? Imagine you are one of the elders in a (non-Christian) society and you have a meeting with the other elders to discuss "what laws should we have to make our society prosper?", you are obviously all going to agree that having people murdering each other left, right, and center is counterproductive to social peace, and are likewise going to agree that rampant theft is going to pose a similar problem to general social harmony, and so are obviously going to outlaw murder and theft, and it doesn't take having a bible to do that. That is, in fact, roughly the method by which our modern societies work: Through the democratic process we create the laws that we together would like to see enacted and think would make our society prosper, and it doesn't take a bible to do that."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWell I'm going to reincarnate in a new body with no memories of my previous life.
ETA: Couldn't stand it that I typed "believes" instead of "beliefs". (Didn't notice it til Rogue quote me)Last edited by Cow Poke; 06-26-2017, 06:14 PM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostUnfortunately, karma will kick in, and you will end up with a family with your current believes, and they will stomp you to death at the age of 18 months. Then you'll come back as a Tweb moderator!
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThat's just plain vicious. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd I suspect that you would reject my view of God based on moral grounds - correct? But since I am a Christian and my moral view of God comes from the teachings of Christ, His example and the New Testament in general. I would which of those teaching you would disagree with? The golden rule, to love our fellow man, to forgive our fellow man? Sexual Chasity outside of marriage? Admonishments to be honest and truthful? Not to be greedy? Not to steal? Go the extra mile to make peace with your neighbor? To help the poor? To be self-controlled?
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Originally posted by seer View Post[...] But neither the homosexual thing or the slavery thing are absurdities, they violate no law of logic. You have a personal moral objection to them, that is fine. But that objection, I believe, is based largely on the cultural mores you were raised with - and you might have had very different thoughts on these if you were raised in a different time and place.
But it is interesting to see you so openly declaring your view that slavery is not an absurdity since (in your opinion) it violates no law of logic. And the same, it seems, goes for the humiliating descriptions of homosexuals. If your religion was founded in another period, you might have had very different thought on this.
My objections to these things are not based on my personal interest or my particular culture. I found these these to be morally wrong, lacking any moral justification, despite the fact that I grew up among people making exactly the claims that you do.
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