Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Becoming the Right Person vs. Doing Right for Right Reasons
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Originally posted by JimL View PostDon't have to prove it, if your position were true, then existence itself would be an illusion, including the existence of mind, which is self contradictory.
Your questions comes down to "is there a reality outside of the mind." Well if there were not an external reality, then the very idea that there is a you with a mind wouldn't make sense. Where would you, as a mind, exist, if there were no external reality within the which for you to exist in?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYet Kant concluded that if virtue was not rewarded that morality would be irrational.
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, that does not follow.
No it doesn't mean that there is no reality Jim. Just that the one we experience logically could be an illusion. We could be a brain in a vat or living in the Matrix, or being deceived by powerful being.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNeither do you.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIf there is no external reality, then there is no you either, for you would be just as much of an illusion as the rest of the seeming external world. So to ask the question "does your mind correspond to the external reality" doesn't make sense, because it wouldn't be your mind.
If the seeming external reality is naught but an illusion, then so too are you an illusion. The illusory world in its totality, including you, would be the product and property of one mind.
To quote:
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostMorality would only be "irrational" in this instance IF morality was viewed as a virtue in and of itself. It's not. All morals exist for a purpose, namely survival of the species. They are derivatives of self-preservation and procreation in every case and a consequence of natural selection. They are naturally built into us, because those morals were beneficial to the breeding and survival of our species as social animals. IOW, Morality exists to ensure the survival of the family and community and cooperation so that the human species survives. Gods laying down rules are not necessarily, especially given that they were devised by man in the first place.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostActually I linked two arguments from Kant that deductively reasons from morality to God (actually it is one argument expressed two different ways). But that does not change my point, we all make certain assumptions that can not be justified logically or empirically with out begging the question.
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, I'm not say there is no external reality, only that we could be deceived as to what that reality actually is.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYes one could be so deceived, but we learn from an early age to avoid danger and seek that which provides pleasure and nourishment. In short we act as though the the world is real, e.g. if one is attacked by a rampaging lion it would be best to flee, rather than ruminate about its "reality".Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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So a moral system that lacks justice can be rational in your view. We will have to disagree.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYou can't verify that god's existence is true. Therefore you cannot know that the conclusion of your deductive argument based upon God as the premise is true. In short, you cannot make a sound deductive argument for god-based morality.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, I'm not say there is no external reality, only that we could be deceived as to what that reality actually is.
No Jim, you don't understand the argument. Cogito ergo sum (roughly translated I think there for I am). I can not be deceived about the self, I am a thinking entity. I can however be deceived about my perception of the external world (what it actually is). Is what I experience reality or an illusion generated by the Matrix that I'm living in? In either case the the thinking self is still there to have these experiences.
To quote:
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