Originally posted by robrecht
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It remains a part of the discussion since the very beginning, and will always remain a part of the discussion. No you have not demonstrated that it is no longer an infallible document of the church as reinforced by Benedict XVI. It was only nuanced and clarified , by the Vatican II and other later documents to clarify specific 'Salvation' outside the Roman Church, which I have cited in detail.
I will cite it 100 times if you continue to avoid the fact that it remains the doctrine that defines 'Salvation in the Roman Church.' 200 times if necessary, 300?
Still waiting for you to provide specific and accurate references that allow for 'Salvation' beyond that which I have specifically cited in the Vatican II, and other supported and relevant documents.
IT is very much the topic of the discussion. Yes, 'the document[s Vatican II and Lumen Gentium] does however refer to development of the doctrine as in deepening, making explicit what was previously only assumed, and clarifying what was previously uncertain,' but this refers to the role of the church concerning ecumenism, NOT Salvation. Concerning the issue of 'Salvation Outside the Church' the documents clarified specifically who may be saved outside the Roman Church.
Again the purpose of 'Instruments of Salvation' are to lead the 'separated brethren' back to the 'One True Church' and Salvation within the Roman Church.
"The response, based on the teaching of John XXIII and Paul VI, is very clear: the Second Vatican Council did not intend to change - and therefore has not changed - the previously held doctrine on the Church." Pope Benedict XVI
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
There are no other possibilities for salvation in Vatican II, nor the Catachism. You asked for references and I gave them to you.
Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego wrote this concerning 'Salvation outside the Church' is a sufficient reference to justify my case. He is a theologian of authority who cited the church fathers to support the case, and as far as I can find no objections to what he wrote. "However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity."
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