Originally posted by Charles
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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A shared challenge regarding the foundation of ethics
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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From the Philosophical Naturalist morals and ethics do not exist apart from minds. The evolved as the mind evolved as an evolution strategy for the survival of the species. There is no objective verifiable evidence that would convince the Philosophical Naturalist that other minds exist beyond human minds that would be responsible for morals and ethics. There view adequately explains human morals and ethics by the objective evidence.
From the Theist perspective it is a belief that cannot be objectively verified. It is based on a belief in a God that is the 'Source' of all things.
The view that there are certain natural facts which are constitutive and definitive of value is called naturalism. One variant of naturalism in value theory is the interest theory of value. It is probably quite widely held. The theory is given definitive formulation by Professor Ralph Barton Perry. He says that values are created, or instituted, in the psychological processes of desire and interest. To desire something, to take an interest in something - whether this is real or imaginary - is to institute value. Value is created by, dependent upon, an interest attitude. Value is the interest attitude; apart from the interest attitude there is no value at all.x is truth = interest is taken in x [because of the two grades of value, no rational mind would take an interest in imposing false as a value of interest or to pursue].
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Originally posted by seer View PostCharles, if your premise is that we can't know what is right or wrong apart from an objective standard, and you can not demonstrate if this standard exists, or how we know what it includes or not, how on earth can we find any common ground to discuss these things? Where do we even start? And there is nothing embarrassing about what I believe.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostAnd yet you refuse to answer questions about it. Even very simple ones concerning what actually follows from the statements you make. But I have got enough by now to know that you are unable to answer. Feel free to prove me wrong.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnswer what? Repeat the question.
But once again: If your so called universal mind tells you to kill should you then do so without further reflection and would it be morally justified? What if it is an innocent, a baby? It seems you imply there is no way we can know by ourselves what is right, so should we do it?
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Originally posted by Charles View PostWow, seer, you are really trying to avoid it.
But once again: If your so called universal mind tells you to kill should you then do so without further reflection and would it be morally justified? What if it is an innocent, a baby? It seems you imply there is no way we can know by ourselves what is right, so should we do it?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostIs this what you were hounding me about? Really? Yes Charles if God required me to kill a fellow human being I would (if I had the emotional ability, because I would find it difficult, I can't even kill a mouse anymore). But doing so would not embarrass me, after all I was more than willing to kill my fellow man for my Country when I enlisted in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam war. And since you have no source for objective moral values you can not categorically state that killing in the name of God or Country is morally wrong.
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo? And like I said, you have no problem undermining social cohesion when it is for a cause you agree with. So obviously cohesion is not a main concern for you.Well no you claimed there was evidence for God, but you have no idea what such evidence would even look like - so your demand for evidence is meaningless.
Like we discussed Tass, there are different views of free will, mine includes the ability to do otherwise, and that is not incoherent, and that it is not necessarily CompatibilismThat is just stupid Tass, like you said "natural selection determined us to be who and what we are." There is, in your world, no moving past natural selection.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAnd this is different from the ISIS rationale how, exactly?Last edited by seer; 08-24-2017, 06:40 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostPresumably neither did primitive humans
Tass, my view of LFW primarily includes the ability to do other wise, that is the main component - so how is that incoherent? Be specific please.
That does change the fact that if "natural selection determines who and what we are" the Trumps of the world are only acting out the way that nature created them. Again, why do you hate what nature created so much? Do you dislike the Silver Back because he dominates and controls the group, often even by violent means?Last edited by seer; 08-24-2017, 06:39 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI doubt very much as a Christian, that God is actually ordering them to do what they are doing. And as a Christian I take the teachings of Christ as my ultimate moral guide.
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Originally posted by seer View PostIs this what you were hounding me about? Really? Yes Charles if God required me to kill a fellow human being I would (if I had the emotional ability, because I would find it difficult, I can't even kill a mouse anymore). But doing so would not embarrass me, after all I was more than willing to kill my fellow man for my Country when I enlisted in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam war. And since you have no source for objective moral values you can not categorically state that killing in the name of God or Country is morally wrong.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostBut really there is no way based on your own premises you can evaluate the moral quality of any religious teaching. You cannot say that what this God says is morally wrong and what that God says is morally right, because according to you that is basically up to God to decide. You take the teachings of Christ as your ultimate moral guide but there is no way you can evaluate the moral qualities of it without making circular claims that God is good because God himself says so.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThere would be quite many reasons for being embarrased and potentially there would be no limit to what you could be asked to do. Moses was prepared to kill his own son. Perhaps your test would be if you would go even further. But what your answer clearly shows that you are without moral guidance because of the ideas you hold. That is presumable also the reason that you are blind to to objective moral values.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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