Originally posted by shunyadragon
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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A shared challenge regarding the foundation of ethics
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNonsense, it could have been Iran as well as North Korea, the point is the same. And you are wrong, for most of History most of mankind has lived under totalitarian rule. And those regimes often last for centuries. So justice is not necessary for cohesion. And many primate groups survive just fine where the alpha males take what they want from whom they want, when they, including females and dominate the group, often violently. So you are clueless once again.
You are neutered by your own methods.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNonsense seer, you are appealing only to extremes and cite selectively what only that which justifies your own agenda.
You are neutered by your own methods.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo cohesion trumps justice?
What? You mean moral principles don't come from minds?
Originally posted by seer View PostNo idiot, what I said are facts. Monkeys share, monkeys steal, humans share, humans steal. And most men for most of history have lived under totalitarian rule. Justice is not and has not been necessary for social cohesion - period.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostSurvival of the species trumps everything.
Quit evading! What do YOU mean when you argue that moral values come from the New Testament and emanate from a Mind where all moral ideals emanate from. Or is this merely a faith belief unsupported by facts?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo idiot, what I said are facts. Monkeys share, monkeys steal, humans share, humans steal. And most men for most of history have lived under totalitarian rule. Justice is not and has not been necessary for social cohesion - period.
Even in North Korea there is a system of justice and laws that are necessary for cohesion of the family and community which is universal in human societies and in a more primitive form in primate societies.
I am not sure what your point is that primates have the same behaviors humans, because that only reinforces my argument. The requirement of social cooperation, laws and justice at the community and family level has pretty much always existed in human societies regardless of whether the government is totalitarian or not.Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-17-2017, 07:18 AM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI am not sure what your point is that primates have the same behaviors humans, because that only reinforces my argument. The requirement of social cooperation, laws and justice at the community and family level has pretty much always existed in human societies regardless of whether the government is totalitarian or not.Last edited by seer; 09-17-2017, 10:34 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYeah monkeys poop, humans poop. Monkeys share, humans share, ants cooperate, humans cooperate - you therefore assume that that it is sufficient to explain human morality, which is based in abstract ethical reasoning. But of course your own religion would deny that, as would mine, since animals do not have a rational soul which is necessary to grasp these abstracts.
The comparison with ants is invalid, which is covered in the sources, but it does demonstrate in the animal and insect kingdoms, you have the progressive development of complex social behaviors of cooperation.
I believe Tassman even overstated the roll of instinct in the behavior of primates. Yes, complex primate and human behavior has its roots in instincts, but instinct and impulse cannot explain the social behavior of some of the higher primates.
It does not explain human morality. The research demonstrates that primates have simple forms social behavior that cannot be explained simply by instinct and 'impulse' as some assert.Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-17-2017, 01:45 PM.
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhat? You mean moral principles don't come from minds?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by seer View PostNonsense, it could have been Iran as well as North Korea, the point is the same. And you are wrong, for most of History most of mankind has lived under totalitarian rule. And those regimes often last for centuries.
His claim that totalitarian regimes can last for centuries is based partly on his ignorance of history, but mostly on his ignoring it. His worldview requires that totalitarian government leads to stable society, so he makes that claim without regard to whether it is actually true.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo idiot, what I said are facts. Monkeys share, monkeys steal, humans share, humans steal. And most men for most of history have lived under totalitarian rule.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSeer has made this claim before, in this very thread, and it was refuted. He is unable to name a single example of a totalitarian rule that has lasted for centuries, having tried (and failed) to cite China, North Korea and Cuba, despite all of them having undergone relatively frequent violent changes in government, with the most recent in each case being less than a century ago. His current example, Iran, is even less suitable, having had its government overthrown in 1979.
It is a list of empires, many of which lasted centuries.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostHe is unable to name a single example of a totalitarian rule that has lasted for centuries
It is a list of empires, many of which lasted centuries.Last edited by Roy; 09-18-2017, 07:17 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostLong-lived empires are not necessarily totalitarian, cohesive, uninterrupted nor a single regime. As I said, seer is unable to name a single example of a totalitarian rule that has lasted for centuries.Last edited by seer; 09-18-2017, 07:29 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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