Are secular ethics based on anything other than opinion? Personal or collective? And is any opinion more valid or correct than its opposite? One request in this thread - please don't argue by web link or by cutting and pasting from other people's works. Use your own words.
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Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Secular Ethics...
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Secular Ethics...
Last edited by seer; 06-12-2017, 08:51 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3sTags: None
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Originally posted by seer View PostAre secular ethics based on anything other than opinion? Personal or collective? And is any opinion more valid or correct than its opposite? One request in this thread - please don't argue by web link or by cutting and pasting from other people's works. Use your own words.
Kant's Deontological ethics.
Those are the first two that come to my mind.
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Originally posted by Jin-roh View PostUtilitarianism.
Kant's Deontological ethics.
Those are the first two that come to my mind.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Jin-roh View PostI'm glad to hear that you're deeply familiar with both of these.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI have read quite a bit on both.
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Originally posted by Jin-roh View PostSo when William James wrote that ethics was first about fulfilling the definitions of simple, analytic truths, (e.g. "A father is one who cares for his children") or that it is unethical to treat someone as a means only, you still feel like this is subjective?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Yeeeaaaah.... so here's the really important thing: William James never argued anything like what I said. Someone who had some familiarity with utilitarianism and deontological ethics, as you claim to have, probably would've caught that pretty quickly.
Tell me seer, why are you pretending to know things? Does divine command theory allow for pretenses of knowledge?
Originally posted by seer View PostCompletely subjective. Some men believe it is perfectly acceptable to treat their fellow man as a means only.
That is a self-evident fact given human history. And our view may differ from theirs - but why would our opinion be more valid or correct? Because we hold it?
So glib responses that "all men have an opinion" are categorically off the mark. It's not that you're just missing the target, or that your aim at the wrong target, it's that you may not even know how to aim.
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Originally posted by Jin-roh View PostYeeeaaaah.... so here's the really important thing: William James never argued anything like what I said. Someone who had some familiarity with utilitarianism and deontological ethics, as you claim to have, probably would've caught that pretty quickly.
Tell me seer, why are you pretending to know things? Does divine command theory allow for pretenses of knowledge?
I'm not sure if you know how ethics, in general, works. Of course there are conflicting views, and 'some men believe that it is perfectly acceptable to treat their fellow man as a means only.' Ethics isn't about "what people think/do" it's about "whether what people think/do is right."
So glib responses that "all men have an opinion" are categorically off the mark. It's not that you're just missing the target, or that your aim at the wrong target, it's that you may not even know how to aim.Last edited by seer; 06-12-2017, 11:48 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI have read quite a bit on both. Deontological ethics could possibly escape the subjective charge if applied to Divine command theory.
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Originally posted by Jin-roh View PostYeeeaaaah.... so here's the really important thing: William James never argued anything like what I said. Someone who had some familiarity with utilitarianism and deontological ethics, as you claim to have, probably would've caught that pretty quickly.
Tell me seer, why are you pretending to know things? Does divine command theory allow for pretenses of knowledge?
I'm not sure if you know how ethics, in general, works. Of course there are conflicting views, and 'some men believe that it is perfectly acceptable to treat their fellow man as a means only.' Ethics isn't about "what people think/do" it's about "whether what people think/do is right."
So glib responses that "all men have an opinion" are categorically off the mark. It's not that you're just missing the target, or that your aim at the wrong target, it's that you may not even know how to aim.
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Originally posted by seer View PostJin, I was not arguing about what James said or didn't say I was arguing about the point you brought up (whether attributed to James or not). So stop being deceptive. And BTW the only thing I ever read by James was "The Varieties of Religious Experience" and that back in 1975.
Nonsense, tell me anything in this little diatribe that isn't subjective? "Whether what people think/do is right." And this is not subjective? Ethics concern systems of moral values, values which are fundamentally subjective.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostWhich would contradict Kant's aim ()... In short: He did not want to base it on divine commands, revelations and stuff like that because then it would not apply to all people regardles of religion or culture.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, but others have applied it to the DCT, not Kant in particular. But Deontological ethics does fit nicely with the Biblical worldview. And Kant was a little more nuanced - do a search on his "Moral Argument For The Existence of God." In a nut shell that God is necessarily required for morality to achieve its end.
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