Relationship between Philosophy and Theology

[seer]

Nevertheless all living creatures are genetically predisposed to survive, whether they DO

Of course it is relevant, that is the point. Nature has no goal for any creature. Some get lucky and survive others are unlucky. Nature does not care, nature sets no goals, nature does not intent or not intend our survival. And I'm not sure what you mean by being careful - we just do what we are determined to do.

[shunyadragon]

But you can not say that for our species, because you don't know, we could just as well go extinct, then our goal would have been death. And it is humanity (and our teleology) that we are speaking of.

No, the reality of goals by definition do not necessitate a positive outcome. Somewhere here you forgotten to unfold the map and fallen off the edge of reason and reality to press for an incoherent argument for your theist agenda. What you are ignoring is the matter of fact reality of the history and nature of life, and our species. It is a simple reality that our species will go extict at sometime in the future. It is also the simple reality that the goal of all life, and species including our own is to survive and reproduce.

[seer]

No, the reality of goals by definition do not necessitate a positive outcome.

So again, what is the goal for humanity - survival or extinction? Is our goal positive or negative?

It is also the simple reality that the goal of all life, and species including our own is to survive and reproduce.

Until we no longer survive and reproduce. The fact is Shuny nature set out no goals for humanity, we may get lucky we may be unlucky. There is no objective purpose or aim or goal in a godless universe.

To quote Dawkins:

In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.

[shunyadragon]

So again, what is the goal for humanity - survival or extinction? Is our goal positive or negative?



Until we no longer survive and reproduce. The fact is Shuny nature set out no goals for humanity, we may get lucky we may be unlucky. There is no objective purpose or aim or goal in a godless universe.

To quote Dawkins:

I do not hold to Dawkins view. One opinion Dawkins nor yours defines the problem.

[seer]

I do not hold to Dawkins view. One opinion Dawkins nor yours defines the problem.

Shuny, yes or no, did nature have the goal of creating life on earth?

[shunyadragon]

Shuny, yes or no, did nature have the goal of creating life on earth?

Your question here has a Theistic anthropomorphic tone. The non-Theistic view of purpose and goals in the naturalist view does not consider 'nature creating life on earth.' In the naturalist view the existence of life is the natural consequence of Natural Law and a favorable environment. Once life arises the natural purpose and goal of life is to survive and reproduce.

[seer]

Your question here has a Theistic anthropomorphic tone. The non-Theistic view of purpose and goals in the naturalist view does not consider 'nature creating life on earth.' In the naturalist view the existence of life is the natural consequence of Natural Law and a favorable environment. Once life arises the natural purpose and goal of life is to survive and reproduce.

So is that a no, nature had no goal in creating life on earth. But nature does have the goal of our survival?

[shunyadragon]

So is that a no, nature had no goal in creating life on earth. But nature does have the goal of our survival?

No, my answer is yes as it has always been,

Your question here has a Theistic anthropomorphic tone. The non-Theistic view of purpose and goals in the naturalist view does not consider 'nature creating life on earth.' In the naturalist view the existence of life is the natural consequence of Natural Law and a favorable environment. Once life arises the natural purpose and goal of life is to survive and reproduce.

[seer]

The non-Theistic view of purpose and goals in the naturalist view does not consider 'nature creating life on earth.' [/B]

Then why does it consider survival?

[shunyadragon]

Then why does it consider survival?

. . . because that is the goal of life; survival and reproduce.

[seer]

. . . because that is the goal of life; survival and reproduce.

OK, so nature has no goal in creating life, but it has a goal in the matter of our survival. Don't you see how silly that sounds. How about there are no goals. Nature just happened to create us, and we just happen to survive, well until we don't happen to survive.

[shunyadragon]

OK, so nature has no goal in creating life, but it has a goal in the matter of our survival. Don't you see how silly that sounds. How about there are no goals. Nature just happened to create us, and we just happen to survive, well until we don't happen to survive.

No

[JimL]

Jim you have to keep up. Shuny has been claiming that there is a teleology (goal) for humankind - scientifically supportable and objective. I'm saying no, nature has no such goal for our species. We do of course have a subjective desire to live - but that was not the question.

It isn't nature, aka the material world, that has a goal, nature itself is not a mind, but living things do have a goal, a goal that they strive for each and every day, and that goal is to stay alive, to survive. Your goal is to survive eternally!

[seer]

It isn't nature, aka the material world, that has a goal, nature itself is not a mind, but living things do have a goal, a goal that they strive for each and every day, and that goal is to stay alive, to survive. Your goal is to survive eternally!

No Jim, I have the subjective goal to exist, but non-rational creatures do not have goals. Sure they may strive to survive, but there is no intention (and goals do imply intention). They may get lucky and make it, or unlucky and not.

[Tassman]

Shuny, yes or no, did nature have the goal of creating life on earth?

Nature did not "create" life on Earth. That's what all-powerful gods are alleged to do...despite the lack of credible evidence that gods even exist. Life on Earth is a process brought about incrementally via Natural Selection. There is no purpose or goal other what emerges within us based upon natural instinctive drives re say, the welfare of our children.