Relationship between Philosophy and Theology

[seer]

Yes, nothing is changed! Your citation does indeed offer a Theist Teleological explanation, but that does not preclude the possibility of a non-theistic explanation. All ready covered this in the previous posts.

Yes my citation from your LINK. But no Shuny, you are just fudging again - you still have not told us what the non-theistic teleology for humankind is.

[JimL]

Actually Jim no, was it the goal for dinosaurs to survive? No, that goal was to go extinct.

Thats just silly seer. Is it your goal to go extinct? You, I believe, are confusing the goal of nature, with the goal of life forms within that nature. Nature itself has no goal, it is what it is.

[seer]

Thats just silly seer. Is it your goal to go extinct? You, I believe, are confusing the goal of nature, with the goal of life forms within that nature. Nature itself has no goal, it is what it is.

Jim you have to keep up. Shuny has been claiming that there is a teleology (goal) for humankind - scientifically supportable and objective. I'm saying no, nature has no such goal for our species. We do of course have a subjective desire to live - but that was not the question.

[shunyadragon]

OK, then please tell me - what is the goal for humanity? If there are no theistic intentions or goal what is the non-theistic goal for humanity?

Been there done that many times the the Naturalist goal of humanity is to survive as a species, and like all species that is their goal. Most species eventually become extinct, but life continues as more species evolve. The goal of life as whole is to survive through evolution of species.

My answer is not going to change.

Shuny the man is an Atheist! He is the co-founder of the Peruvian Secular and Humanistic Society...

Need more information, because your citation provides a Theist Teleological perspective, and not a secular atheist perspective.

[seer]

Been there done that many times the the Naturalist goal of humanity is to survive as a species, and like all species that is their goal. Most species eventually become extinct, but life continues as more species evolve. The goal of life as whole is to survive through evolution of species.

Shuny, nature does not have our survival as a goal and more than it did for dinosaurs. It may be just as well that nature has our extinction as a goal. So life, the life of our species, does not have a teleology for life. Just as the dinosaurs it may have the goal of our death.

Need more information, because your citation provides a Theist Teleological perspective, and not a secular atheist perspective.

It was not from a theistic perspective, it is what logically follows from naturalism. And here is his bio:

Victor Garcia-Belaunde graduated Cum Laude with a BA in Psychology from Universidad de Lima. He received a MPhil in History of Philosophy from Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos and a MA in Professional and Applied Ethics from the Australian National University. He published several articles ranging from sexual psychology to Greek philosophy in Un Vicio Absurdo, Escritura y Pensamiento, Punto de Equilibrio and Caretas. He worked as a psychotherapist in the Department of Psychology at Universidad de Lima and as a panelist for Radio Union and Radio Miraflores. He was appointed lecturer at Universidad San Ignacio del Loyola since 2004 for the courses of Human Development, General Psychology, Professional Ethics and Philosophy. He is currently working at Universidad San Ignacio de Loyola, where he teachers Ethics and Philosophy of Science, and as a psychotherapists in Integro. Besides, he is the co-founder of the Peruvian Secular and Humanistic Society, where he was appointed Executive Director in 2012. http://usil.academia.edu/VictorGarciaBelaunde

[shunyadragon]

Shuny, nature does not have our survival as a goal and more than it did for dinosaurs. It may be just as well that nature has our extinction as a goal. So life, the life of our species, does not have a teleology for life. Just as the dinosaurs it may have the goal of our death.

Again a basic high school understand of science and evolution would help. It is the goal of species and life as a whole to evolve and change to survive. Having a goal does not translate into success of survival of the species, but nonetheless, species evolve into new species which replace those that do not survive, and life continues to survive for billions of years.

[seer]

Again a basic high school understand of science and evolution would help. It is the goal of species and life as a whole to evolve and change to survive. Having a goal does not translate into success of survival of the species, but nonetheless, species evolve into new species which replace those that do not survive, and life continues to survive for billions of years.

Shuny, we are speaking of our species, not how evolution works in general. So again, what is nature's goal for humanity - survival or extinction?

[shunyadragon]

Shuny, we are speaking of our species, not how evolution works in general. So again, what is nature's goal for humanity - survival or extinction?

Well you brought up dinosaurs. So whats up?!?!?!?!

If you consider our species alone the answer remains the same, survival of the species.

Though, from the Naturalist perspective the goal and purpose is the survival of life, and the natural method is evolution. No species has the goal of extinction. All dinosaurs indeed became extinct, but their progeny survived in the evolved species of birds.

[seer]

Well you brought up dinosaurs. So whats up?!?!?!?!

If you consider our species alone the answer remains the same.

Though, from the Naturalist perspective the goal and purpose is the survival of life, and the natural method is evolution.

See Shuny, you can't answer the question because no one knows if we, as a species, will survive or go extinct. Nature does not know nor does it intend either way. We may be lucky and survive or unlucky and not survive.

[shunyadragon]

See Shuny, you can't answer the question because no one knows if we, as a species, will survive or go extinct. Nature does not know nor does it intend either way. We may be lucky and survive or unlucky and not survive.

No, goals do not warrant success even on the galactic scale. Even the human reality down to the individual person cannot warrant the success of their goals. This is the reality.

[seer]

No, goals do not warrant success even on the galactic scale.

I'm not asking for goals on a galactic scale, only for our species. And neither we or nature knows what we are slated for. Is the goal life or death?

[shunyadragon]

I'm not asking for goals on a galactic scale, only for our species. And neither we or nature knows what we are slated for. Is the goal life or death?

The goal is life.

[Tassman]

Well that is not actually true is it.

Well yes it is.

Obviously many extinct creatures were not predisposed to survive, because well - they didn't

Nevertheless all living creatures are genetically predisposed to survive, whether they DO

[Tassman]

I'm not asking for goals on a galactic scale, only for our species. And neither we or nature knows what we are slated for. Is the goal life or death?

The evolved instinct of all living creatures, including us, is one of survival and reproduction.

[seer]

The goal is life.

But you can not say that for our species, because you don't know, we could just as well go extinct, then our goal would have been death. And it is humanity (and our teleology) that we are speaking of.