And if they do, how? Are they some material substance? I don't really see how they can exist under a materialist paradigm.
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Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Do the laws of the universe exist under materialism?
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Do the laws of the universe exist under materialism?
-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac NewtonTags: None
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3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures --1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (borrowed with gratitude from 37818's sig)
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostAnd if they do, how? Are they some material substance? I don't really see how they can exist under a materialist paradigm.Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-03-2017, 09:31 PM.
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostAnd if they do, how? Are they some material substance? I don't really see how they can exist under a materialist paradigm.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostLaws are not existing things in themselves that govern how other existing things act, existing things are governed, or act, according to their own determined nature, and the ways in which they act are what we call laws. In other words what we define as natural laws are not at all the same thing as commands from an authority.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhat we call laws are descriptive of how nature works. They are not like authoritative commands that can either be obeyed or not obeyed.
If they are just descriptive, then they don't exist independent of mind.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostThat's not answering the question. Are the laws observable physical properties or not?
If they are just descriptive, then they don't exist independent of mind.
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostThat's not answering the question. Are the laws observable physical properties or not?
If they are just descriptive, then they don't exist independent of mind.
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostThat's not answering the question. Are the laws observable physical properties or not? If they are just descriptive, then they don't exist independent of mind.
The laws themselves are not observable physical properties; they're attempts to explain regularities, just like any scientific theory is. You can also look at it like this: the laws describe what usually happens; they don't force anything to happen in and of themselves.Last edited by psstein; 03-04-2017, 10:50 PM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostPhysical laws are not existing things in their own right, if they were, where would you say that they exist, what would you say that they are made of, and how would they interact with matter? The laws are simply the way in which matter, in accord with its own determined nature, acts. The fact that matter acts according to its nature is an existing fact independent of the mind, but there are no self existing laws that govern nature. It is what it is, and thats alls that it is.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostSo let me rephrase the question. Is its 'nature' a physical observable property? Or is it matter? Or is it something else? Please elaborate.
Yes, nature has observable physical properties, but nature is also governed by Natural Laws, which are not observable physical properties like the things of nature, such as 'matter.'
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