Arguments you should not use

[Sparko]

sigh.

This was why I was ignoring you and discussing it with Carrot. The reason I can't show you "a legitimate argument" is because you are a moron who can't understand any legitimate argument as everyone has been telling you. Arguing with morons is not generally worth my time, so I will go back to waiting for Carrot to respond.

PS You seem to be confusing "caused by" and "determined by"

really, you do need to change your username. please.

[seer]

Sure there is, there is just no ultimate moral responsibility.

Again, Oxford, responsible: Being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it.

No only is there no moral responsibility there is no responsibility, no blame or credit in your world. So when a man rapes a child he is not responsible - no blame.

[Jedidiah]

Again, Oxford, responsible: Being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it.

No only is there no moral responsibility there is no responsibility, no blame or credit in your world. So when a man rapes a child he is not responsible - no blame.

I could not help myself.

[seer]

I could not help myself.

Mother nature made me do it!

[Sparko]

Thinker, on this topic, is a textbook example of Dunning-Kruger syndrome. He thinks he is an expert on this while everyone else clearly sees that his is not only wrong, but so wrong that he is ridiculous. As bad as Darfius or Jorge or John Martin, and can't see it.

[shunyadragon]

Calvinism and Islam are not civilizations. derp. And Islam believes in Free Will. In fact without it you cannot worship Allah.

Islam does not necessarily believe in free will.

Source: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=islam%20free%20will%20and%20predestination

Qadar (Arabic: قدر, transliterated qadar, meaning "fate", "divine fore-ordainment", "predestination") is the concept of divine destiny in Islam. It is one of Islam's six articles of faith, along with belief in the Oneness of Allah, the Revealed Books, the Prophets of Islam, the Day of Resurrection and angels.

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

Islam does not necessarily believe in free will.

Source: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=islam%20free%20will%20and%20predestination

Qadar (Arabic: قدر, transliterated qadar, meaning "fate", "divine fore-ordainment", "predestination") is the concept of divine destiny in Islam. It is one of Islam's six articles of faith, along with belief in the Oneness of Allah, the Revealed Books, the Prophets of Islam, the Day of Resurrection and angels.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: http://www.irfi.org/articles3/articles_4801_4900/predestination%20in%20islam%20-wikipediahtml.htm

Definition

Qadar is the Arabic word for Destiny. Qada' is the Arabic word for Decree. They may or may not be used interchangebly depending on the context. Essentially, Destiny is what Allah has decreed. Allah has knowledge of everything in his creation. Nothing occurs except by his will. Human beings are given free will

© Copyright Original Source

Sounds like compatiblism, or molinism to me (I am a molinist myself) which means that we have free will that is within the pervue of God's sovereignty. In other words, God knows what you will do freely and allows it. Or he can step in and disallow it if he wishes. You still have free will.

[shunyadragon]

Sounds like compatiblism, or molinism to me (I am a molinist myself) which means that we have free will that is within the pervue of God's sovereignty. In other words, God knows what you will do freely and allows it. Or he can step in and disallow it if he wishes. You still have free will.

Humans are on the surface given free will, but nonetheless the outcome of all decisions are predetermined in this philosophy. I will acknowledge that there are varying interpretations among Islamic philosophers, as among Christians, but as I said Islam does not necessarily believe in free will, particularly any form of libertarian free will.

If anything this view is problematic among Christians and Muslims and borders on humans being Divine puppets on strings, or robots.

[Sparko]

Humans are on the surface given free will, but nonetheless the outcome of all decisions are predetermined in this philosophy. I will acknowledge that there are varying interpretations among Islamic philosophers, as among Christians, but as I said Islam does not necessarily believe in free will, particularly any form of libertarian free will.

If anything this view is problematic among Christians and Muslims and borders on humans being Divine puppets on strings, or robots.

if so then Allah cannot hold them responsible for their actions, can he?

[shunyadragon]

if so then Allah cannot hold them responsible for their actions, can he?

Complete omnipotent foreknowledge as believed by many Muslims and Christians, puts the complete responsibility on the part of the Creator on the intent, nature and purpose of human will in Creation.

[Sparko]

Complete omnipotent foreknowledge as believed by many Muslims and Christians, puts the complete responsibility on the part of the Creator on the intent, nature and purpose of human will in Creation.

https://www.whyislam.org/on-faith/de...and-free-will/


It is as I said. Allah has the ultimate control, but he allows us to have free will within those parameters. Pretty much the same belief as in Christianity.

[shunyadragon]

https://www.whyislam.org/on-faith/de...and-free-will/


It is as I said. Allah has the ultimate control, but he allows us to have free will within those parameters. Pretty much the same belief as in Christianity.

This simply confirms the following . . .

Complete omnipotent foreknowledge as believed by many Muslims and Christians, puts the complete responsibility on the part of the Creator on the intent, nature and purpose of human will in Creation.

[seer]

This simply confirms the following . . .

Complete omnipotent foreknowledge as believed by many Muslims and Christians, puts the complete responsibility on the part of the Creator on the intent, nature and purpose of human will in Creation.

Is your god omnipotent and all knowing Shuny? Does that make your god responsible for evil?

[Sparko]

This simply confirms the following . . .

Complete omnipotent foreknowledge as believed by many Muslims and Christians, puts the complete responsibility on the part of the Creator on the intent, nature and purpose of human will in Creation.

no. because knowing the actions doesn't mean causing the actions. logical fail.

[The Thinker]

sigh.

This was why I was ignoring you and discussing it with Carrot. The reason I can't show you "a legitimate argument" is because you are a moron who can't understand any legitimate argument as everyone has been telling you. Arguing with morons is not generally worth my time, so I will go back to waiting for Carrot to respond.

PS You seem to be confusing "caused by" and "determined by"

really, you do need to change your username. please.

No, it's because you have no legitimate argument. They literally rely on logical fallacies, informal or not. That's all you have. You just assert that you have free will. There is no argument whatsoever. Do you seriously think you've made the case for LFW? I've debated this issue to death and I know there is no way you can win. You're arguing for a square-circle.

On your PS, if D is caused by C, and C was caused by B, and B was caused by A, and so on and so forth, then D was determined to happen by the chain. The only way it isn't is if it was uncaused by C, B or A. You'd have to deny causal regularity and believe that the same exact events can lead to a completely different effect with no explanation. That requires acausality - which negates LFW since by definition you cannot have control over something uncaused.

You really need to study the subject matter more because you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't know any of the science it seems to be, and you definitely don't know the philosophy.