Hugh Hefner is now in hell

[Charles]

No idiot, you would have to show from the text of scripture where it suggests that God sends babies to eternal hell.

The problem is that there are numerous interpretations. Many Christians have told me that in their understanding you can only be saved by Christ and if you do not know him you cannot be saved, baby, mentally disabled or whatever. So I guess I can go back and call all of them idiots? Then I know an awful lot of Christian idiots.

Can you show me where scripture says babies cannot be sent to hell? Or is it your subjective interpretation?

[Charles]

No, they're not going to be happy in any sense. It just strikes me as odd that someone would complain about God not allowing the unrepentant into heaven when there is nothing about heaven that they would find the least appealing.

Perhaps the absence of torture would be appealing after having suffered for some 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years?

[Mountain Man]

You could say that about any God. Allah or other etarnal torturous gods like your god who according to many christians actually put babies in hell. You can deny that in your subjective interpretation.

Like I said, feel free to make the case that the evidence for other gods is on equal footing with the evidence for Yahweh.

[Mountain Man]

What? Where do you get the idea that God sends babies to hell? Those who die before the age of accountability will go to heaven -- that is they lack the cognitive ability to fully understand their need for salvation, which is different for each person.

So shouldn't we, out of the goodness of our hearts, murder all children before they reach the age of accountability? Specially if they are our kids?

Ever read the 10 Commandments, dumbass?

[Charles]

Like I said, feel free to make the case that the evidence for other gods is on equal footing with the evidence for Yahweh.

Like I said it makes no difference to my point. Muslims are honestly convinced and must go to hell anyway, or are you making the claim they are dishonest and etarnal punishment is fair? Like I said Yahweh, the torturer, hardly qualifies as a god, so he is in no special position in any way.

[Charles]

Ever read the 10 Commandments, dumbass?

And they serve the purpose of making sure some men survive long enough to deserve hell?

[JimL]

Ever read the 10 Commandments, dumbass?

Yes I have, but to murder our children would be an altruistic act, according to your belief system we would be punished, yes, but our children would go staight to heaven. Right? And by the way, if children can go straight to heaven, without the crucible of earth nonsense, then why couldn't that be the case for everyone? Doesn't make sense, does it?

[Charles]

Mountain Man's reply appears to be a freudian slip. What he seems to say is that if it is in the bible you cannot question it. His only argument so far is that it is the content of the commandments. The fact that the consequence is etarnal pain seems not to have been important enough to mention for him.

[Terraceth]

The problem is that there are numerous interpretations. Many Christians have told me that in their understanding you can only be saved by Christ and if you do not know him you cannot be saved, baby, mentally disabled or whatever. So I guess I can go back and call all of them idiots? Then I know an awful lot of Christian idiots.

Considering that such a belief is, as far as I can tell, exceedingly fringe, I have an expectation that you are either dramatically overstating the quantity of Christians who have told you this, or you are misunderstanding their beliefs.

[Starlight]

Yes I have, but to murder our children would be an altruistic act, according to your belief system we would be punished, yes, but our children would go staight to heaven. Right? And by the way, if children can go straight to heaven, without the crucible of earth nonsense, then why couldn't that be the case for everyone? Doesn't make sense, does it?

I have a vague idea that some of the more zealous Christians at times in history might have been into killing children of heathens in order to save their souls - on the grounds that the dead child would go to heaven but if they grew up to be an adult heathen the they'd go to hell (not sure whether it was the crusaders, inquisition, conquistadors, or what).

Although it's worth noting that mainstream Christianity has often been pretty skeptical of the fate of children. Remember, Original Sin, was often thought to mean children weren't born 'innocent' or 'pure' and were in fact born guilty / sinful. The RCC came up with the idea of Limbo, and it's only been in the last few decades in a fit of modern progressivism that they've suggested that babies might go to heaven rather than Limbo.

[Charles]

Considering that such a belief is, as far as I can tell, exceedingly fringe, I have an expectation that you are either dramatically overstating the quantity of Christians who have told you this, or you are misunderstanding their beliefs.

A have repeatedly asked them whether they really thought that babies or even featuses would go to hell and they have confirmed. Not much to misunderstand. If you hold a different view then that is good. But does not change the fact that some actually hold this. Which parts of scripture would you point to?

[Charles]

I have a vague idea that some of the more zealous Christians at times in history might have been into killing children of heathens in order to save their souls - on the grounds that the dead child would go to heaven but if they grew up to be an adult heathen the they'd go to hell (not sure whether it was the crusaders, inquisition, conquistadors, or what).

Although it's worth noting that mainstream Christianity has often been pretty skeptical of the fate of children. Remember, Original Sin, was often thought to mean children weren't born 'innocent' or 'pure' and were in fact born guilty / sinful. The RCC came up with the idea of Limbo, and it's only been in the last few decades in a fit of modern progressivism that they've suggested that babies might go to heaven rather than Limbo.

That is one of the ideas I have heard too. We are simply born siners. From birth a baby is a sinner, so it can only avoid punishment if it knows Christ. If not it is as much a sinner as everyone else..... who comes up with these crazy ideas?

[JimL]

I have a vague idea that some of the more zealous Christians at times in history might have been into killing children of heathens in order to save their souls - on the grounds that the dead child would go to heaven but if they grew up to be an adult heathen the they'd go to hell (not sure whether it was the crusaders, inquisition, conquistadors, or what).

Although it's worth noting that mainstream Christianity has often been pretty skeptical of the fate of children. Remember, Original Sin, was often thought to mean children weren't born 'innocent' or 'pure' and were in fact born guilty / sinful. The RCC came up with the idea of Limbo, and it's only been in the last few decades in a fit of modern progressivism that they've suggested that babies might go to heaven rather than Limbo.

Yep, I agree. But MM apparently believes that infants up to a certain unspecified age, should they die, go straight to heaven. I think he needs to make it up as he goes in order to fit his religion to his own moral view.

[Starlight]

Yep, I agree. But MM apparently believes that infants up to a certain unspecified age, should they die, go straight to heaven. I think he needs to make it up as he goes in order to fit his religion to his own moral view.

I suspect it's cognitive dissonance caused by the modern fad of US Evangelicals being really strongly anti-abortion.

They've got to come up with some reason to justify to themselves why killing people in war or via police brutality or via judicial execution is Fine, while killing fetuses is Monstrous. Their way of squaring the circle is to pretend to themselves that people killed by their armies or overzealous police forces or crazy courts are all Criminals Who Deserve Death and are never innocent, whereas those fetuses are Totally Innocent. And if that means rewriting the whole idea of original sin in the process, so be it.

[Mountain Man]

Yes I have, but to murder our children would be an altruistic act, according to your belief system we would be punished, yes, but our children would go staight to heaven. Right? And by the way, if children can go straight to heaven, without the crucible of earth nonsense, then why couldn't that be the case for everyone? Doesn't make sense, does it?

That is quite possibly the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Life is the exclusive gift of God. None of us have the right to take it.