Originally posted by Sea of red
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
General Theistics 101 Guidelines
This area is open for nontheists and theists to interact on issues of theism and faith in a civilized manner. We ask that nontheist participation respect the theistic views of others and not seek to undermine theism in general, or advocate for nontheism. Such posts are more suited for and allowable in Apologetics 301 with very little restriction.
The moderators of this area are given great discretion to determine if a particular thread or comment would more appropriately belong in another forum area.
Forum Rules: Here
The moderators of this area are given great discretion to determine if a particular thread or comment would more appropriately belong in another forum area.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Why is apologetics almost unknown?
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by hansgeorg View PostExactly how much is claiming the universe is 13.5 billion years across or Earth is 4.5 billion years old going to help inventing better technologies which, if used the right way (a thing science cannot guarantee) can help to advance certain parts of the material conditions of men?
In other words, where exactly is modern scientific view of the universe directly involved?
Originally posted by Adrift View PostHmm. How is Lewis' argument on hell like what you've described? I'm familiar with Lewis' argument, but I don't remember him arguing either that people have "full knowledge of the consequences of our actions and the existence of God" or "that we can cause infinite harm to God and deserve infinite punishment."Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.
"Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham
"We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card
Comment
-
Originally posted by stfoskey15 View PostThe latter argument was one I read on the Internet.
Originally posted by stfoskey15 View PostGoing into a bit more detail on the former argument (what do you think of this article's job of summarizing Lewis' views?) it appears as tho I was wrong. But isn't having "full knowledge of the consequences of our actions and the existence of God" necessary for the concept of hell as described by Lewis to be just?
Comment
-
Originally posted by hansgeorg View PostExactly how much is claiming the universe is 13.5 billion years across or Earth is 4.5 billion years old going to help inventing better technologies which, if used the right way (a thing science cannot guarantee) can help to advance certain parts of the material conditions of men?
Obviously major breakthroughs in our understandings of theological physics could potentially result in inventions like fusion power, anti-gravity technologies, room temperature superconductors etc that would have dramatic implications for our life on earth. Thus astronomy - our modelling of cosmic phenomena and careful comparison of observation against models - is one of the most cutting edge sciences in terms of advancing our understanding of the basic physical laws of the universe. At lot of people imagine astronomy as getting up at night to look through a telescope and write in a journal the location of a star, but in practice the big telescopes are all automated so you just program what you want them to be aimed at and have no need to either get up at night or be anywhere near the telescope as the next day the data collected by the telescope is in your computer system. What the astronomer is doing instead will be looking carefully at things like the different amounts of light the star is emitting in different parts of the spectrum or changes in that over time, and how those things tie into different physical phenomena - e.g. a planet orbiting that star passing in front of it; some particular type of nuclear reaction within the star; the star moving away or towards us at particular speeds; energy being given off by black holes etc - so the astronomer is doing a heck of a lot of mathematically-based computer modelling and comparing that to the empirical data being obtained. I think it's a fascinating field of research.
Originally posted by stfoskey15 View PostThe latter argument was one I read on the Internet. Going into a bit more detail on the former argument (what do you think of this article's job of summarizing Lewis' views?) it appears as tho I was wrong. But isn't having "full knowledge of the consequences of our actions and the existence of God" necessary for the concept of hell as described by Lewis to be just?
His view is thus much closer to an Eastern Orthodox idea of "hell is something we create within ourselves by becoming horrible people" rather than the traditional evangelical / Roman Catholic idea of Hell as a place of punishment that God sends unbelievers to roast for eternity in. Of course, once you start saying that hell is something we do / create etc rather than something God does, you can't really assert that being a Christian in this life is necessary or sufficient for salvation. Thus both Lewis and the Eastern Orthodox tend to be pretty fine with the idea that non-believers can be saved after death, while evangelicals tend to prefer the idea that believing the gospel in this life is essential for salvation.Last edited by Starlight; 01-09-2017, 06:37 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostIn his book about hell, Lewis presents souls as having the ability to move between heaven and hell at will (at least initially). His hell is not full of any fire or devils or God-inflicted suffering, but rather those people who are nasty just gravitate towards living in a place by themselves and reveling in their nastiness (he doesn't really grapple with questions like "well, wouldn't those people want to have a set of innocents they could be nasty to?"). His hell becomes a bad place because of their presence rather than due to anything much else.
His view is thus much closer to an Eastern Orthodox idea of "hell is something we create within ourselves by becoming horrible people" rather than the traditional evangelical / Roman Catholic idea of Hell as a place of punishment that God sends unbelievers to roast for eternity in. Of course, once you start saying that hell is something we do / create etc rather than something God does, you can't really assert that being a Christian in this life is necessary or sufficient for salvation. Thus both Lewis and the Eastern Orthodox tend to be pretty fine with the idea that non-believers can be saved after death, while evangelicals tend to prefer the idea that believing the gospel in this life is essential for salvation.
Comment
-
As usual Adrift, you're wrong about everything. Doesn't that get tedious?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostAs usual Adrift, you're wrong about everything. Doesn't that get tedious?
It doesn't seem to bother you at ALL.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
-
Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt would probably come as a huge surprise to anyone not familiar with the field to learn just how much advanced modern physics research is being done by astronomers. As our models of theoretical physics advance, there are two major ways in which they are being tested: In massive colliders built by CERN etc where matter is accelerated to huge speeds and then the collisions are analysed to understand what is within the matter and how it is interacting; and in astronomical entities of neutron stars, black holes, galaxies etc that naturally create very interesting and complex physical systems, and by studying these systems carefully we can test all kinds of hypotheses about quantum physics and relativity and essentially conduct 'experiments' of kinds that we would have no hope of conducting on earth (good luck building a black hole in your lab for example).
Obviously major breakthroughs in our understandings of theological physics could potentially result in inventions like fusion power, anti-gravity technologies, room temperature superconductors etc that would have dramatic implications for our life on earth.
AND even a model theoretically connected to heliocentrism is a model which if tested in CERN is other than heliocentrism.http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html
Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!
Comment
-
Originally posted by stfoskey15 View PostI'm pretty sure evolution has been very influential in our understanding of biology. And an accurate knowledge of cosmology is necessary if we ever want to travel to the stars.
If I am right, travelling to the stars might be risky as well as a waste of time.http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html
Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Esther, 11-23-2023, 10:29 AM
|
184 responses
855 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 05-09-2024, 07:07 AM |
Comment