Dubious Plot and Cast

[Cow Poke]

I have no idea how many multiple demon possessions have occurred.

Yes, that was quite obvious up front.

Neither do I have any idea why more than one would be required, they being "supernatural" and all.

"Required"? Who said they were "required"? It's an unusual case that Jesus dealt with, and He dealt with it rather handily.

You're trying to justify your "billions", and not doing so good. The fact that we have ONE account that multiple demons possessed a man (or a couple of men) for a limited time is really poor logic for assuming BILLIONS. (I'm picturing the old McDondald's signs --- "Billions and Billions served")






Note - It's quite possible there ARE "BILLIONS" of angels and/or demons, but your "logic" isn't doing so good to support that.

[whag]

Yes, that was quite obvious up front.



"Required"? Who said they were "required"? It's an unusual case that Jesus dealt with, and He dealt with it rather handily.

You're trying to justify your "billions", and not doing so good. The fact that we have ONE account that multiple demons possessed a man (or a couple of men) for a limited time is really poor logic for assuming BILLIONS. (I'm picturing the old McDondald's signs --- "Billions and Billions served")






Note - It's quite possible there ARE "BILLIONS" of angels and/or demons, but your "logic" isn't doing so good to support that.

If you still think I'm defending billions, you're not following the thread. It could be a dozen. Maybe it's three.

Yes, Jesus handled it handily. He migrated their substance into pigs.

[Cow Poke]

If you still think I'm defending billions, you're not following the thread.

You're all over the place - hard to follow.

It could be a dozen. Maybe it's three.

WHAT could be a dozen or maybe three? The "Legion"?

Yes, Jesus handled it handily. He migrated their substance into pigs.

Demons are disembodied spirits - as opposed to angels, who never try to inhabit a body.

[whag]

You're all over the place - hard to follow.



WHAT could be a dozen or maybe three? The "Legion"?



Demons are disembodied spirits - as opposed to angels, who never try to inhabit a body.

Ok now you're all over the place.

Let me summarize:

1. Total demon population according to you: could be three to billions. I agree.

2. Demons don't have scrotums or toes. They lost them during the war in heaven. I agree.

[Cow Poke]

Ok now you're all over the place.

Let me summarize:

1. Total demon population according to you: could be three to billions. I agree.

This is dumb - where did I say the total population of demons could be three?

2. Demons don't have scrotums or toes. They lost them during the war in heaven. I agree.

You've reverted to jackassery.

I agree.

[whag]

This is dumb - where did I say the total population of demons could be three?



You've reverted to jackassery.

I agree.

So we can arrive at a minimum number, then. More than the members of Nirvana, for sure.

[Cow Poke]

So we can arrive at a minimum number, then. More than the members of Nirvana, for sure.

I shall leave you to your jackassery.

Unsubscribing. Have fun!

[whag]

I think this cast of characters works fine if we understand the backstory. Here's a backstory that could work. God gave dominion over the earth to mankind, but Adam gave up this dominion through disobedience.

That doesn't address the angelic rebellion, which is the first implausible part. God creates a highly intelligent being, Satan, who knows that God can't be usurped. God gives Satan high office. Satan somehow has a mental episode, lusting for the power of God that he knew he could never have (because he's just slightly above humans), and contrives a mutiny anyway. Many angels are consumed with the same inexplicable delusion and follow Satan, becoming disembodied in the process. Not plausible.

The one who deceived Adam inherited his dominion, and became (as we find in the New Testament) "the ruler of this world", "the prince of the power of the air", and "the god of this age". By Satan usurping mankind's dominion, direct divine communication between God and man was broken off. Since Satan acquired dominion over the earth legally, it required God to take it back legally (God being a God of order, and not of chaos must follow whatever guidelines he has previously laid out).

Not sure how Satan usurped dominion if he dared wage a mutiny previously in Heaven. You'll have to explain the legal system that allowed that.

Jesus came in part to restore that dominion, and to intercede on our behalf. It's possible that Satan did not know the full identity of Jesus (assuming that he was the Messiah, and the Son of God, but not knowing that he was God the Son), but even if he did, he had something precious that he knew that the Messiah wanted back. He didn't understand, and could not foresee that the Christ would suffer the ultimate curse by being mocked, hung on a tree till death, and then buried. So he offered what he possessed, all of the dominion over the world, and the world system, and everything that went with that, if only the Messiah would bow to him (which, incidentally, is what he wanted when he was cast out from heaven if we accept that he is symbolically represented in Isaiah 14:12-14).

If he's not symbolically represented in Isaiah, where do you get any of Satan's backstory and motivation?

That said, the Christian is not obliged to accept that anything Satan does is done rationally. Perhaps being cast out of the presence of the almighty made him nuts. He knows he is ultimately defeated, and while fruitless, he attempts to thwart God in any and every way that he possibly can until his final end.

Anyways, the above may not be satisfactory to you. May even ask more questions than it answers. But I for one believe it adds plausible background to dubious plots and cast.

Without Isaiah, there is no background or motivation. Even with Isaiah, I'm honestly telling you it doesn't sound plausible to me at all. Start before Eden.

[whag]

I shall leave you to your jackassery.

Unsubscribing. Have fun!

You're no fun.

[The Pixie]

... Here's a backstory that could work. God gave dominion over the earth to mankind...

I wonder why this narrative is not set out clearly in the Bible. This was an event that had huge implications to mankind and to Christianity, and yet God apparently has chosen not to make clear what happened. Maybe he finds it all a bit embarrassing...

[37818]

I wonder why this narrative is not set out clearly in the Bible. This was an event that had huge implications to mankind and to Christianity, and yet God apparently has chosen not to make clear what happened. Maybe he finds it all a bit embarrassing...

". . . And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. . . . "-- Genesis 1:28.

[Adam]

Wow,
Whag was so utterly destroyed as phony, then 37818 has to throw away the game to Whag. Adrift took one post to say it all so well, then 37818 undoes it all with an irrelevant platitude.

[37818]

The address the problem of the belief and not speculations.

Belief not based in what is true can very well be nothing more than mere speculation.

[37818]

Where have I wildly speculated? The angelic rebellion is a wild speculation?

The wild speculations of others about it.

It really feels like you're stalling in getting this discussion started. I gave you a very simple summary of what I find unbelievable, which is what you asked for. Now you're implying I'm a wild speculator. Unless you pick up the pace, I'm through here.

OK, why do you find this unbelievable?

[whag]

". . . And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. . . . "-- Genesis 1:28.

That's no explanation. By the time that was written, humankind was already well out of the food chain, multiplying like rabbits, dominating fish and fowl.

It's obviously an observation of ourselves, built on previous Sumerian tradition, fitted to a newer religious interpretation. It says jack squat about an angelic rebellion that supposedly explains all moral and natural evil. For that, we have Isaiah 14:12, which even Christians acknowledge might not be about Satan.