Originally posted by bling
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It was not the first...
This is the point. Why should I feel that gratitude? The whole thing is a set up. God made a law that he knew we could not keep, God decided Jesus would die to make up for us not keeping it. Now he expects me to feel this "unbelievable huge gratitude" for that?
God Loves us (will do and does do more sacrificial stuff for us) than we could ever Love Him, so who is the winner and loser in that relationship?
Everything possible?
How about creating us capable of complying with his first commandment?
How about setting commandments that we can achive?
How about not tirturing for eternity those who fail?
Are these things beyond God?
The Garden shows us that God really want us to be in a wonderful place, but obtaining Godly type Love requires a much better place for humbly accepting pure charity (where we are today).
Whichever way you tell it, the system was designed and created by God (if we accept Christian doctrine). He chose for it to be the way it is.
Because God chose that it could not.
Or God is himself obligated to follow someone else's rules.
That is interesting, because most Christians say that sin is the problem.
Is that instant annihilation or annihilation after God has tortured you for a while?
Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Cool, neither am I.
If you think about you will come to the realization there is no better way.
So it turns out a better way would be for God to keep his existence secret. If no one knows he exists, we all lack the opportunity to choose God's love and so all get a free pass to heaven.
The Great Commission was a work of evil, spreading the news that there is a God, and so greatly reducing the chances of people getting to heaven.
These people really do not want to have unselfish Love or be truly Loved, so they would be unhappy in heaven where there is only a huge Love feast of Godly type Love.
Priests, vicars, preachers, etc. The guy at the front in church.
I do not believe God exists. That is not a choice I have made, that is the inevitable outcome of the evidence presented to me.
Christ is God, so you are saying God did not force God to go to the cross, but God did allow God to.
God hugely Loves me no matter what, but I will not humble myself to accept that Love as charity without a huge need to do so, I have too much pride.
His message is what he wants for us. What he wants us to do, why we should do it.
God came to Earth as Jesus and said a bunch of stuff. Did that have any meaning? If so, that was God's message.
Unfortunately God has been powerless to stop his message getting corrupted into hundred of different sects, all convinced they knew his message. Virtually all must be wrong, because they all disagree.
Actually, I did make a free will choice to sin, if I had not sinned Christ would not have gone to the cross (this has to do with God being outside of time [time being relative]). It is not that I physically nailed Christ to the cross, but it was my personal sins that forced a willing Christ to go to the cross.
God has contrived a situation where he set up Jesus' death, and then he tells you you are to blame, and then he says he forgives you for it. And that proves he loves you. That is like your friend burning down his house while you are away, then telling you it was your fault, but actually she forgives you. What an immense love your friend must have for you that she is prepared to forgive you for that, right?
People do bad stuff all the time, but most people do the right thing most of the time. The humanist philosophy is that people are great. The Christian way is that people are scum. Christianity focuses on the bad, and then blows it out of proportion. And here we see it in action. You accept you sin, you even accept that your sins do not amount to much, at least, not until we throw Christianity at them. Suddenly your sins are "unbelievable huge beyond any concept of being reconciled".
Sure we do bad things, but it takes the Christian God to turn our insignificant sins into something "unbelievable huge beyond any concept of being reconciled"
How do you convince a man that his little sins are "unbelievable huge beyond any concept of being reconciled"? Years of indoctrination by Christianity I guess.
Please look at the Prodigal Son Story (Luke 15: 11-32): It was the young sons choice to either stay in the pigsty alone to starve to death (which is what he fully deserved) or he could turn to his father for help. If the young son had been a real macho man he would have willingly starved to death in the pigsty [just payment for what he did] and not pestered his father further with his presence.
That is the choice being made and why the starving pigsty scenario (hell) is there. But was the father putting that gun to his head or was it the son that put it there?
That is the choice being made and why the starving pigsty scenario (hell) is there. But was the father putting that gun to his head or was it the son that put it there?
Punishment and discipline are the same word in Greek.
Punishment in scripture can be translated discipline.
Punishment in scripture can be translated discipline.
No it was not, wicked men crucified Christ and God and Christ allowed them to do it.
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